"Original" 1911 Conn 4v BBb

[ztuba]

The only conns I have played on are the huge old ones that people seem to worship. (Seriously not a fan) That 17 inch bell one that I love. The 20k sousaphone (new ones) I am just retarded in love with. On the other hand those new "tubas" in my opinion are a waste of brass that should be shipped to a miraphone or meinl weston factory. Who makes a 17 inch bell that is all flair, or a 6/4 horn with a .689 bore?? WHY!!!!!!! KHAN!!!!!! Maybe it is just the Wrath of Conn! No pah intended. This model here .. .773 bore 17 inch bell that is NOT all flair. It has a large sound and actually responds when you blow a buzz into it. The only reason people are so big on the old conns is because York went out of business to make artillery or tanks or whatever. If there were more Yorks, no one would ever play conn.. Darwin was right in that aspect of things.

[pjv]

eh, by older I meant 50-100 years old.

As far as I know, the xJ and 1xJ series are all .656 bore, the 2xJ and 3xJ series .773 bore and with the 8xJ series I'm uncertain, but you'll find .734 bores in there I believe. (I think the Eb came in .693 but I'm not so familiar with them). Only in the xJ and 1xJ models did one "generally" get a 16/17 or so inch bell. Bellsizes in the bell-up models range from 20-23" and even larger for bell-front tubas. The pre-model # tubas fit somewhere into this sketch, more or less.

I speaking very generally.

The newer Conns (5xJ series) are a different story. They're more comparable to King-type tubas I believe.

Is it possible the horrible sounding tubas that you so hated (.689 bore w/17' bell flair) were not older Conn's? Its certainly not a 6/4 horn in the sense that most people use it. More 3/4 to 4/4. These are also rather vague terms of coarse.

-Pat

[Paul Scott]

I played a very similar model nearly 30 years ago when I was considering it for purchase. It was an identical instrument except for the bell which was 21.5 inches in diameter-its' serial # was 143202. The bell stack was so large that the tuba was nearly as wide as it was tall, (and it was 40 inches tall)! The model that I played was not very satisfactory but I'll bet that a smaller bell would have helped.

My favorite Conn model is the rather rare Donatelli BBb and I must admit that I haven't liked many others.

[Cowgo]

I absolutely love my old 1913 Conn Orchestra Grand. 22" upright bell with a .773 bore.I had the tuning slide cut to bring it into modern pitch and it is one sweet player.

[The Big Ben]

I absolutely love my old 1913 Conn Orchestra Grand. 22" upright bell with a .773 bore.I had the tuning slide cut to bring it into modern pitch and it is one sweet player.

The horn in question (1911 4v Conn) has the tuning slide in the mouthpipe before the valveset. What difference tuning and playing wise does it make to have the slide there as opposed to on the other side of the valveset?

[Tubadork]

The only conns I have played on are the huge old ones that people seem to worship. (Seriously not a fan) That 17 inch bell one that I love. The 20k sousaphone (new ones) I am just retarded in love with. On the other hand those new "tubas" in my opinion are a waste of brass that should be shipped to a miraphone or meinl weston factory. Who makes a 17 inch bell that is all flair, or a 6/4 horn with a .689 bore?? WHY!!!!!!! KHAN!!!!!! Maybe it is just the Wrath of Conn! No pah intended. This model here .. .773 bore 17 inch bell that is NOT all flair. It has a large sound and actually responds when you blow a buzz into it. The only reason people are so big on the old conns is because York went out of business to make artillery or tanks or whatever. If there were more Yorks, no one would ever play conn.. Darwin was right in that aspect of things.

Just asking once again, so what is your ideal tuba sound? Or ideal tuba? Just curious, not trying to slam you, you're just so anti-Conns. I can't really say I pro or conn conns (HA!), just trying to figure out what you like.
Bill

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Congratulations to the winner of this instrument--a 'Helleberg' model Conn tuba-quite rare.
Regards-
mark
jonestuba@Juno.com" target="_blank

[The Big Ben]

Sold!

$2893

Anyone from here the winner?

[enewberger]

Hi, all. I'm happy to report that I won the auction. There's a story here for me. When I first played for William Bell in his studio on 48th St. in NY, at the age of 14, I brought with me the high school's BBb King sousaphone. He said he'd be happy to teach me for $5.00 an hour, but that I'd have to play an upright instrument. I tried to capture the meaning of this horn in the excerpt below from my book on strengthening the characters of boys. (Bear with me please, because there's also a personally significant philosophical context.) Apropos of the discussion above, when Harvey Phillips's Conn was irreparably damaged by airline baggage handlers some 15 years ago, he called and asked if I still had that Conn. He remembered it vividly, too, and I told him this story.

With warm holiday greetings, and hopes that we don't forget that William Bell, too, was born on December 25,

Eli

Sidebar printed in the July, 2001, Journal of the International Tuba-Euphonium Association:

From "The Men They Will Become: The Nature and Nurture of Male Character" (Perseus Books, 1999)

An excerpt from Chapter 8, "Sharing," on William Bell's generosity:

"Rules may be very helpful in causing a certain amount of sharing by the preschooler, but I don't think they will inspire sharing behavior as much as will his seeing the older members of the household be very sharing with each other, with others outside the household, and with him. Sharing is contagious behavior.

During my childhood, my father, even with two jobs, made barely enough income to pay for the essentials. By the time I was a preschooler, my parents were quarreling regularly about money; that is, my father frequently complained about what my mother spent. My mother had an old piano, on which she occasionally played Beethoven's "Fur Elise." When I begged for piano lessons at age five, and a teacher told my mother I had enough talent to justify having a good instrument at home, she, without consulting my father, upgraded the old piano to a Steinway, signing a contract to pay for it in installments. My father was predictably furious, but after his outbursts he would eventually subside.

Looking back, I realize that my parents were playing out the normal middle-class division of labor of that time; a wife stayed home, took charge of the household, and raised the children while her husband earned a living for the household. When such a conventional marriage was not a true partnership – as was the case with my parents – it was easy for the breadwinner to slip into the resentment of thinking his wife was merely a consumer devouring his earnings, and an insatiable one at that. To me, as a preschooler and schoolboy, it often looked as though my mother was caring and giving, to the extent of her ability, and that my father was ungenerous toward her and his children.

In my high school years, when I was earning money playing gigs as a jazz pianist and giving it to my father to save for my college expenses, but also making the tuba my principal instrument, my renowned tuba teacher, William Bell of the New York Philharmonic, offered to sell me one of his favorite horns that he had already loaned me for three years – a Conn pitched in the Key of C – for the giveaway price of two hundred dollars. My father refused to release any of my savings to buy the tuba; he said it was a foolish idea. I went off to college without my own instrument. Though I now have four tubs at home and have given several others from my collection to museums over the years, I yearn to this day for the one that belonged to a teacher with faith in me.

From our household's struggle over finances, I grew up determined to be generous toward others. Yet the legacy of my childhood experience is that I do sometimes find myself calculating the cost of being generous: What is it going to take out of me? When I'm really tired or upset or under pressure, one of the things I do is get very uptight about money. My childhood comes back to haunt me, to remind me of the tremendous long-term power, for better or for worse, in the parent-child relationship.

The character strengths we treasure and foster in ourselves are in dynamic tension inside us with their very opposites – generosity and stinginess, courage and timidity. Under stress we risk becoming the very opposite of what we most aspire to. In the first century, Paul of Asia Minor described this struggle: "The good which I want to do, I fail to do; but what I do is the wrong which is against my will." The qualities that we try to cultivate within ourselves do not come from a textbook or from "character education." Each one reflects a problem or challenge in our lives, against which we try to construct an inner strength to cope with it." (pp. 106-108)

[The Big Ben]

Enjoy your horn, Eli. It's a beauty just like it is.

Sometimes it's hard to understand our parents. I know mine confused me. Luckily, I was able to work it out and accept them for who they were and what they went through before they died and for that I am grateful.

[pjv]

Conngratulations Eli. Eh, it "seems" like you eventually bought Bell's tuba and it "seems" like you were able to sell itk to Harvey in later years. But these are presumptions. Neither are stated explicitly. You only state not having one at the audition with Bell and that your father wouldn't pay $200 for Bell's tuba.

Did you get the tuba back than as well?

Just curious.

-Patrick

ps Please keep us up to date about how this horn plays. Thanks

[enewberger]

Nope, Patrick. I never did find that horn, tho' to my memory this one has the same configuration. It's been 50 years since I returned it to Mr. Bell. And I remember Harvey Phillips's Conn CC as quite different, smaller and more flexible in its playing characteristics.
Eli