Just learn the scales!

[imperialbari]

Which one is bloke? The one in the red & blue outfit or the one in the green?

[pierso20]

Which one is bloke? The one in the red & blue outfit or the one in the green?

If it ain't bloke, don't fix it.

[MaryAnn]

I thought catfish didn't have scales......

MA

[imperialbari]

I thought catfish didn't have scales......

MA

Apparently elves also have their general knowledge downscaled:

The boat is the scale!

bloke measures his catches by the Plimsoll marks

K

[iiipopes]

I am also a fan of the Rubank Advanced for scale work, and all around tune up as each unit addresses several aspects of playing in progressive keys.

[imperialbari]

My own youthful scalework was from the cornet version of Arban and done on various brass band related brasses. Arban applies several patterns to some of the scales, the closer to written C major the mare variants. The far-out keys are represented very sparingly. There is a reason for that, insofar, that the piano accompaniament to some of the variations make very clear, that Arban’s era applied the clarinet principle to the cornet also: if too many sharps, then let us play it on instruments in A rather than Bb. Arban’s working range also appears somewhat limited compared to the demands of today.

Never passing through my hands there still appears to be a modernised version of Arban’s scale etudes out there. After what I read in some place on the web some years ago many, if not all, of Arban’s scale approaches have been applied to all keys in a wider range. I remember reading about a treble clef version, but I am not sure about te existence of bass clef versions.

Klaus

[bububassboner]

Gang, don't you just love it when college kids tell "I walked five miles to school in the snow uphill...both ways" stories to each other?

Sorry, I forgot that in order to tell people about what you did to get to where you are you must have the little "pro" picture by your name or boast a lot about your paying job and I don't feel like boasting about my playing jobs.

So, did you buy the tubas with money you earned?

Every single one. That little York F was my first tuba it payed for my college. Making it much easier to afford nice horns. (I love how having nice horns = spoiled brat)

We know successful pros here who didn't play anything but Bb until their junior year in college. Arnold Jacobs got into Curtis with a borrowed Eb instrument that he did not know how to play in Eb.

Yes but he auditioned for Curtis at the age of 16 if I am correct. Many violinist can play circles around tuba players at about that age. My point of my post was to show that if one wants to be a "pro" they need to get their act together BEFORE college. How many "pros" can you name at never worked hard before college? How many never tried to take lessons? How many never practiced? This is my point. If you want to be a "big boy" why wait till junior or senior year of college? It just amazes me at how many of my classmates worry more "if there are going to be scales on the group placement audition" than worrying if they have a sound and playing skills that will get them hired.

Scales are the building blocks of reading skills and technique. Yes, yes, yes. But your post was still an "I walked uphill through the snow" sort of boast.

I apologize, I did not mean for my post to come across this way. I will work on the whole "expressing one self through writing" more.

I hope this cleared up what I was trying to say earlier. (HOPE being the main word there)

Charles Nickles
(In bloke's "why dont you post more" thread, I voted hard time expressing/poor speller. I wish Safari had a spell checker)

[The Big Ben]

Gang, don't you just love it when college kids tell "I walked five miles to school in the snow uphill...both ways" stories to each other?

Sorry, I forgot that in order to tell people about what you did to get to where you are you must have the little "pro" picture by your name or boast a lot about your paying job and I don't feel like boasting about my playing jobs.

To tell you the truth, I kinda think your band director/teacher's Bataan Death March approach to learning the tuba was designed to wash out people who weren't serious about the tuba than for any pedagogical advantage.

Wouldn't a lot of that time have been better spent playing music?

(P.S. Safari does have spell check- I just used it.)

[Rick Denney]

Sorry, I forgot that in order to tell people about what you did to get to where you are you must have the little "pro" picture by your name or boast a lot about your paying job and I don't feel like boasting about my playing jobs.

Hmmm. That's a new one on me. Seems to me the people with that sobriquet are actually less likely to articulate their early accomplishment. For those folks, their status as successful professionals speaks for itself. But remember that few of us know you from Adam, so it is only your words that can convey your intentions. Describing your own path is one thing, but using your path as a stick to beat down another student whose path has been different seems different to me.

(I love how having nice horns = spoiled brat)

Your arithmetic doesn't quite add up, but maybe I'm just confused. You mentioned having comprehensive skills on all four keys of tubas by the time you were a junior in high school, yet then describe how working with one instrument in college helped pay for others. I'm missing something.

But more power to you if you collected your instruments on your own. You would certainly be the exception for kids still in college. But here's my issue: You were clearly scolding James for not being advanced enough as a late undergraduate concerning skills you said you possessed as a high-schooler. The fact that you were scolding him suggests to me that you think your approach is the correct one, and I think anyone reading your post would have had a difficult time arriving at a different conclusion. So, are you recommending that any high-schooler with professional aspirations should develop competence on all four keys of tubas by the time they are a junior in high school? In my opinion, that is an unreasonable expectation, and might in fact put too much emphasis on equipment and not nearly enough on musical development. And for most kids who don't have $20K to spend on tubas, it might put their parents in the poor house. The kids who really have the talent and drive will add the instruments as they are able.

Yes but he [Jacobs] auditioned for Curtis at the age of 16 if I am correct. Many violinist can play circles around tuba players at about that age. My point of my post was to show that if one wants to be a "pro" they need to get their act together BEFORE college. How many "pros" can you name at never worked hard before college? How many never tried to take lessons? How many never practiced? This is my point. If you want to be a "big boy" why wait till junior or senior year of college? It just amazes me at how many of my classmates worry more "if there are going to be scales on the group placement audition" than worrying if they have a sound and playing skills that will get them hired.

(No, Jacobs was 15. But does it really matter to my point?)

You make good points, but those good points do not trace from being driven by a teacher to play all scales perfectly on all four keys of tubas while still in high school. Had this paragraph appeared instead of your first post, I would have not complained. Since you seem to want to improve your expression, I suggest putting yourself in your reader's position and reading what you write from that perspective. If you see something that might be perceived as proclaiming your own skills rather than making a point for someone else's benefit, then you might consider whether that approach has much hope of getting that point across. Your story sounded like bragging, not like advice, but you seem not to have intended that. The more you write, the easier it will get to express your true intentions. By the way: it's not about the spelling.

Rick "noting that good writers share with good musicians the ability to hear their story as the audience does" Denney

[bububassboner]

WOW, amazing. You learn something new everyday.

[Kayla]

I don't like scales, but I try making them as applicable as possible, like I take a tough rhythm from a piece and apply it to each note of the scale (like Wagner's Ride).

Off topic much, but my boyfriend (a trumpet major) was reading this thread alongside and he said "Wow, there's a lot of drama...on a TUBA forum".

[rocksanddirt]

Off topic much, but my boyfriend (a trumpet major) was reading this thread alongside and he said "Wow, there's a lot of drama...on a TUBA forum".

as a trumpet player for many years....he has no idea what drama lurks behind the drums in a marching band...

[imperialbari]

I don't like scales, but I try making them as applicable as possible, like I take a tough rhythm from a piece and apply it to each note of the scale (like Wagner's Ride).

I use a somewhat similar approach when I train fast tonguing patterns in the low range. I use the descending chromatic scale. But I do not count this approach as scale work, as the moving patterns of scales are not in the foreground here.

This thread has mentioned several books and methods of scale work. The Arban type is more varied than mine, but then these more elaborate methods consume quite a bit of time, if they shall be done all through the circle of fifths on a regular basis. My own method cuts the fat and only has two bars (repeated) and the end note for each scale, which however is presented in 3 different octaves. I have these scales printed out, but don’t really use the prints, as I have the scales memorized by the quality of the scale degrees: pure Minor has minor third, sixth, and seventh, whereas Dorian is very similar, only it has a major sixth.

To keep interest up I note where the melodic tritone intervals are while playing.

No brass instrument is completely in tune with itself if not manipulated by the player by means of slide pulling, refingering, and/or embouchure work. If the inherent intonation problems are not negotiated, each key will become very different from even the same mode in any other key. Scales are a major help in training the ears to act as command center for the various technical approaches needed.

But then there is at least one more method for achieving the same goal: Find a simple tune with no chromatic modulations. Play it it in your favourite key. You may note no problems of uneven intonation. Then play the same tune in a key, which is not a fourth or a fifth apart from the original key. Does the intonation sound right? If not, then trace the problems and work on them. If you can play such tune in all 12 keys through all of your range and sound in tune and even all the way round, then you are in pretty good command of your instrument.

Klaus

[k001k47]

I'm a horrible musician who will never get a playing job (won't stop me from trying) and I can play my scales (I like to think) respectably.

[The Big Ben]

I'm a horrible musician who will never get a playing job (won't stop me from trying) and I can play my scales (I like to think) respectably.

If you show up on time and sober, with your horn in playing condition, having rehearsed your music on your own and wearing the right clothes, they might overlook you throwing in a clam every once and awhile. If you have a good sense of humor and are kinda cute, they probably will keep ya.

Least that's what The Elephant says he does...

[timdicarlo]

If you show up on time and sober, with your horn in playing condition, having rehearsed your music on your own and wearing the right clothes, they might overlook you throwing in a clam every once and awhile. If you have a good sense of humor and are kinda cute, they probably will keep ya.

On time... check.
Sober... for a gig?... check.
Rehearsed... check.
Right clothes... check.
Sense of humor... I like to think so.
Kinda cute... crap.

Whaddaya think? Will a solid 4.5 out of 6 cut it?

[rocksanddirt]

Kinda cute... crap.

Whaddaya think? Will a solid 4.5 out of 6 cut it?

I feel your pain....

[NC_amateur_euph]

Klaus wrote

bloke measures his catches by the Plimsoll marks

Darn it, Klaus. I was trying to go the whole day without thinking. Your post stuck in my head and made me look up Plimsoll line.

Seriously, thanks for the stimulation. Since I am the only one in the office today, I actually needed it.

Best regards and Merry Christmas!

[The Big Ben]

IOff topic much, but my boyfriend (a trumpet major) was reading this thread alongside and he said "Wow, there's a lot of drama...on a TUBA forum".

Does your mother know you are spending time with a trumpet player?

[Tuba Guy]

My first tuba teacher required that I have a mastery of all four keys of tuba by the end of my Junior year in HIGH SCHOOL (I started playing tuba this very same year). He would give me tests during lessons where he would bring in one tuba of every key plus a euphonium and would make me do sight reading test on every tuba. For me, not knowing my scales was not an option and even though this method was very hard (first two weeks playing was on BBb then added Eb than a month later added CC than a month later F) I am very glad my teacher took this approach with me.

Here we are, trying to tell kids that music and musicianship based on good fundamentals is the most important thing, and now we hear that they are not one of the big boys unless they know all four keys of tuba by their junior year in high school. So, did you buy the tubas with money you earned? If not...your poor parents (and I mean that in all ways).

I have a feeling that our James might be applying a fairly tough standard to the definition of "knowing a scale". It isn't enough to know the fingering pattern, which we all practice by drumming our fingers on our steering wheels, etc. They also have to be in tune (with themselves), and even in tone and articulation. I'll bet that ANY high-school kid who can play all 48 scales won't sound like Gene Pokorny when he does, even if he has a World Class Sound. "Perfection" is a big word.

Rick "feeling better, thank you" Denney

I'm not saying that learning all 4 keys of tuba is neccisarily neccisary, but I could see the advantage of it. I probably take a strange approach when I play a different keyed horn, in that I always regard the fundamental pitch as C, and then just place that C on the correct like (for example, BBb tuba's C is a Bb, which is 2nd line). Then, I place the C on the correct line, and just read it as a different clef (back to BBb's, the 2nd line C is mezzo soprano clef).
Likewise, I always read my CC as straight bass clef, my Eb as treble clef, my BBb as mezzo soprano clef, and (if I had one) an F as tenor clef. This also helps if I feel like reading some trombone excerpts and need to play in tenor clef.
I had a teacher (theory/aural perception/sight singing/he just liked to torture us), and he taught us about all of the different clefs and how they are used as transposition tools, something that i pretty much see as easiest.
So, learning all of the keys of horns, I could see how that would be helpful...if you need to play one of the tubas in the other clefs, you already know how to finger it for those, and you only need to learn soprano clef, alto clef, baritone clef, and french violin clef after (...ok, so french violin is bass clef, but w/e).
Well, that's just how I look at playing different keys of horns...could be more complicated than it's worth, but it's how I see it. (and as a result, I'm also the only freshman who can play trombone at least somewhat competently in C treble clef)