helicon Eduard Riedl

[ger]

I'd like to share some pics of my newly acquired helicon. Made by Eduard Riedl senior in Graslitz, nr. 124.
Nice player (with the help of a Conn tuning bit), I want to use it for Christmas gigs. Bought it from a collector in Frankfurt, in wonderful condition. Any information about the maker would be appreciated.

[The Big Ben]

Looks really good. What key is it in? (Eb or F?)

[ger]

it looks rather small but it's definitely a Bb

[Donn]

All that I know about the maker is that my wife formerly owned an ancient Czech bassoon fabricated by Riedl.

So at any rate Riedl made instruments, it isn't like my Lignatone helicon that presumably was actually made by Amati?

It's an unusual shape for Bb, I guess it might hang pretty low, but I like the idea. Like the Amati F, it will stay put a lot better than a circle.

[windshieldbug]

The only Langwill listing for Eduard Reidl is

Brass Instruments, flourished Graslitz a1897 - p1925
1897, 1925 listed.

[imperialbari]

The cranks point old, but could probably be found on instruments made up until around WWII.

The odd shape of the main tuning slide indicates a conversion (augmentation), when the pitch was was taken low around 1920.

The wrapping is similar to that of the Schediwa of Odessa Herkulesophone patented around 1885.

There are/were Riedl instrument makers in Graslitz. Nürnberg, and Bremen. This is the first Eduard Riedl I have seen documented.

Klaus

[iiipopes]

Great horn! Being a 4-valve is impressive as well. It might just be the particular angle of this picture, but with the geometry of the bugle, does the bell on this helicon point more up than out as on, say, a Conn helicon of the same era?

[ken k]

very interesting horn. i would love to see a picture of you playing it. I always wondered how those old european helicons fit over the shoulder.

ken k

[imperialbari]

[iiipopes]

Ah. Thanks.

[The Big Ben]

it looks rather small but it's definitely a Bb

In Bb, is it? Interesting! It's so much smaller than other BBb/CC helicons. There sure are a lot of tubes under the valves that I only saw on a second look- guess those are the tubes to make it BBb.

This one looks like it would be easier to carry than the horns with the round inner 'hoop'. How's intonation and stuff?

[ger]

thanks for your comments, I really appreciate that.

There sure are a lot of tubes under the valves that I only saw on a second look- guess those are the tubes to make it BBb.

here's a a picture of the backside.

227d_3.JPG

How's intonation and stuff?

Intonation is nice, also because of the fourth valve. Easy attack, sound is more 'to the point' than my King 2340. Valves are relatively quiet after some work on it.

The odd shape of the main tuning slide indicates a conversion (augmentation), when the pitch was was taken low around 1920.

that's an interesting thought. Tuning slide all in gives an A=440.

i would love to see a picture of you playing it.

not playing, just standing

[oedipoes]

I think it might be interesting to direct your questions about Riedl to the Markneukirchen instrument museum.
This is their forum:
http://www.museum-markneukirchen.de/forum/index.php

I have seen pretty interesting stories there, but I think mostly in German language.

Let us know if any result !

Wim

[Toad Away]

A beautiful helicon!
Wow, I never thought I would see the Riedl
name again.
While in Nuremburg in the late '60s I purchased
a Riedl Kaiser BBb from a small music shop for
next to nothing. A monster tuba!
Soon after I picked up my first CC, a Bill Bell
model MW, at Geretsreid and before returning
to the U.S. I sold the Riedl (for next to nothing)
and have always regretted not keeping it.
Fortunately I have a few photos in my scrapbook
of that giant horn.

Thanks for the memory

Tim L.

[imperialbari]

Looks very similar to my helicon, videos and discussion here-viewtopic.php?f=10&t=28852
Couldn't find any maker's details on mine, but looking at your pics, it could well be a Riedl. The intonation on mine is very good too, way better than the sousaphones I've used in the past. I'm thinking of selling mine, as, although it's about half the weight of a sousaphone, my shoulder's had enough! Or I'd consider trading it for a recording bell Conn or King, if anyone's interested.

Gideon, yours likely could be by any of the fine northern Bohemian makers or even from a Saxonian maker of the same period. There was a much freer exchange of ideas, patterns, and parts than we see today (the Chinese copies not mentioned).

Your helicon should rather be evaluated on the music it allows you to make. Documentation is very much available via the link you provided.

Klaus

[oedipoes]

I think it might be interesting to direct your questions about Riedl to the Markneukirchen instrument museum.
This is their forum:
http://www.museum-markneukirchen.de/forum/index.php

I have seen pretty interesting stories there, but I think mostly in German language.

Let us know if any result !

Wim

You really should try this ! In English should be no problem.
I tried it for my Kaiser and got a lot of interesting comment back.
I'll post that later, because it's in german.

These guys are really specialists in this matter.

Wim

[imperialbari]

Please post the museum reply right as it is now. Several board members on both side of the pond will prefer the original German text to a translation anyway. A translation then may follow when somebody find the time to tranlate it.

Klaus

[oedipoes]

Please post the museum reply right as it is now. Several board members on both side of the pond will prefer the original German text to a translation anyway. A translation then may follow when somebody find the time to tranlate it.

Klaus

There you go:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31671&start=24

[ger]

I think it might be interesting to direct your questions about Riedl to the Markneukirchen instrument museum.
This is their forum:
http://www.museum-markneukirchen.de/forum/index.php" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

I have seen pretty interesting stories there, but I think mostly in German language.

Let us know if any result !

The Museum Markeunkirchen (S.Florian) tells me:
Eduard Riedl ist in Paul de Wits Weltadressbüchern der Musikinstrumentenindustrie von 1926 und 1930 in Graslitz in der Schleifergasse 175 verzeichnet.

Additional information comes from moderator Mario Weller:
"Zusätzlich zu Florians Information habe ich noch den ersten Eintrag in ein Weltadressbuch gefunden. Es handelt sich hierbei um die Ausgabe des „Weltadressbuch der Musikinstrumenten-Industrie“, Paul de Wit, Leipzig 1900 auf Seite 156.
Dort ist in Graslitz verzeichnet:
Riedl, Eduard, (vorm. Wilh. Riedl), Kaiserstr. 125, Musikinstr.-Hdlg. Gegr. 1858.
Im Adressbuch von 1909 ist folgendes verzeichnet:
Riedl, Eduard, Kaiserstr. 124, Musikinstr.- u. Saiten-Versandgeschäft.
Wie Sie anhand des angegebenen Gründungsjahres 1858 sehen, handelte es sich um eine alteingesessene Firma. Auch lässt sich durch Ihr Foto der Gravur belegen, dass beim Adresseintrag von 1900 ein Fehler abgedruckt wurde. Nämlich die Hausnummer 125 statt 124.
Bei der Gravur-Angabe "Graslitz 124" handelt es sich deshalb um die genaue Bestimmung der Hausnummer, nicht um eine Serien-Nummer. Diese Art des Hinweises in der Gravur auf die Hausnummer einer Straße des betreffenden Herstellungsortes war damals keine Seltenheit.
Zum Helikon selbst kann ich Ihnen leider keine bestimmten Auskünfte geben, da es sich bei dieser Graslitzer Arbeit und dem Instrumententyp nicht unbedingt um mein Fachgebiet handelt. Einzig das Jahr der Herstellung des Helikons können Sie nach Florians Recherche vor das Jahr 1926 datieren!....Nur aus den Gedanken heraus: Es gab einen Wilhelm Riedl (sicher der Firmengründer), dessen Sohn Eduard Riedl (sen.) und wiederum dessen Sohn Eduard Riedl jun....

So this helicon was made somewhere between 1858 (when Eduard Riedl had taken over from Wilhelm Riedl) and 1926 (when Riedl had moved to another adress) is my conclusion.....

[imperialbari]

As said earlier this instrument was made prior to the pitch reform of 1920. Instruments could not be discarded just for that reason, so the post -1920 period shows all sorts of standardized and not very standardized sorts of HP-to-LP conversions: loops in tuning slides, pigtail tuning bits, and funny shaped tuning slides striving to avoid exposing the slide bow beyond the main frame of the instrument. Your helicon is a sample of the latter. As is the sock shaped tuning slide of my Cerveny Kaiserbariton.

K