My playing keeps getting worse with increased practice time?

[Roger Lewis]

I can think of a number of different things that might lead to this problem. The best recommendation I can give is - Get to a teacher! Period.

Roger

[tubashaman2]

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[Rick Denney]

When that happens to me, it's because of using too much pressure to gain back (too quickly) the range I had before the break.

Rick "offering only a possibility based on personal experience" Denney

[TubaCoopa]

What are you doing for a warm-up? A good warm-up could mean the difference between a great practice session and one you subconsciously block from your memory.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

It's simply a matter of perspective.

Why not look on the problems as more opportunities for "basic" elements of tuba playing to work on? Assuming that there is no upcoming gig or something you have to worry about preparing for soon, take your time and work on the various problems that come up one at a time. If you're having problems with lip slurs, take out the Arban book and refine the most basic of flexibility exercises until you see some improvements - there's no hurry.

Take the opportunity to scrutinize everything you do...attacks, air movement, intonation, tone quality...everything. RECORD YOURSELF so that you can hear what is good and what needs improvement - this is extremely important, since what you hear from behind the bell is rarely the same as what the equipment will record. Use a metronome to slow things down to a tempo where you can play everything ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY. Then move the metronome up one or two clicks at a time, keeping perfection as a goal...don't move the tempo up until you can consistently attain perfection.

One thing I can absolutely assure you of...if you take this approach, you will show improvement. Private teachers are great for pointing you in the directions you need to practice on and giving you drills to help speed your improvement, but it is you who must make the decision to put in the time to develop the basics. Way too many players don't have a clue how to practice and get frustrated when the don't get instant results by repeating mistakes over and over...don't be one of those players! Be the guy who spends the time on the basics and reaps the benefits later on.

Good luck, and let us know how it's going from time to time!

[tubashaman2]

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[iiipopes]

Overplaying can hurt the embouchure, usually due to inflammation. I've had times in the past when I've been through spells of this. Usually it's because I'm playing to much, getting too tense, and not keeping properly hydrated, not taking proper breaks, not keeping the flexibility exercises going, and tightening the jaw. I take a few days off, relax, yawn a lot, start back with slow, long tones, work into some flexibility exercises, and I'm back on top of the heap in no time.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Record a practice, but DON'T listen to it for a week.

I couldn't disagree more.

If the goal is to be able to say to yourself, "Wow, I sound better than last week. I'm improving!", then not listening for a week is sound advice. If, however, the goal is to make your practice sessions more productive, then listening to each practice session immediately is very important to determine what you should be working on. If you don't really know what you sound like, how can you structure your next practice time to address those issues?

As I said before, too many students simply don't know how to practice. One of the things that holds them back is not knowing what they need to improve on. Listening to yourself with a critical ear is an easy way to determine that.

Of course, having the drive and determination to work on the basic stuff that isn't very "fun" to practice...that's a wholly different animal.

Record myself on a piece in a practice room or something when I first entered college, and then after my senior recital, come back to the same etude or whatever, work the same amount on it, then record and listen to the difference between the 4 years just to see the difference.

I don't understand the value in this, save for one's own "self-esteem." If you don't sound better after four years in an intense university setting studying the tuba, then what would be the point?

Overplaying can hurt the embouchure, usually due to inflammation. I've had times in the past when I've been through spells of this. Usually it's because I'm playing to much, getting too tense, and not keeping properly hydrated, not taking proper breaks, not keeping the flexibility exercises going, and tightening the jaw.

This argument is made often on this forum, and I have to say I don't really understand it. Many players are able to devote 8-10 hours or more a day to playing and have no problems such as described. Somehow they are able to spend a great deal of time buzzing the embouchure daily without ill effects. I think you are on to something with the tension issue, though...that is probably a very important part of the "basics" of tuba playing as well...learning to play without undue tension. That is certainly a very valid point, and perhaps important for the OP to consider (and an example of where a good teacher could be very helpful).

I suppose it depends on one's definition of "overplaying." I didn't glean any info from the OP that implied he is spending too much face time on the horn and that's what's causing his problem.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

No less musicians than Dennis Wick and Jeff Reynolds took weeks away from their horns each year..... Maybe bloke's 10 idea is a good one....

Seems to me it would depend a great deal on the OPs motivation to practice in the first place. I think there is some value in "working through the difficult times" with some extra effort, using the problems that are suddenly appearing as some opportunities for basic fundamental work. After all (assuming one is working to be a professional player), what is a person to do if these type of problems start appearing later (say, after one has won a playing job or has a big recital coming up)? Some experience learning how to go back to the woodshed and work through problems can be quite valuable.

I don't disagree that there is value in getting away from the horn and hitting the reset button from time to time, especially when the frustration begins to mount. But I also think one can radically change one's approach to practice time to gain the same fresh perspective...you may have one of those "ah-ha!" moments when you least expect it.

It just depends on what you're trying to accomplish in the first place.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I am sorry if this is a dumb question, but why do people always insist that recording yourself is useful?

It's not a dumb question...logically, one would think that you are in a good position to hear what is coming out of your bell.

But, if you'll try recording yourself in a larger room at around 50-100 feet away, you may find that what you thought the audience was hearing isn't exactly what you imagined. This technique is most helpful for students preparing for auditions when they find out exactly what the committee is hearing when they play. I remember thinking that I was playing extremely secco on a particular low passage in the Bozza Concertino until I listened to a recording from "out in the hall"...I had to drastically alter my articulation to compensate for the muddiness that was coming out. My ears at one foot away just weren't giving me a true picture of what would be heard in the audience.

Also, expectation often breeds interpretation. Sometimes we hear exactly what we expect to hear, and not what is exactly happening. Intonation may not be as good as you think (or, it may be better!) and the tone quality you hear from your tuba is often affected by the vibrations going on inside your head...there is much documented evidence about the effects on the aural canal by vibrations in the embouchure.

Try it and find out for yourself (hint: pay particular attention to clarity of articulation and tone quality)!

[eupher61]

I am sorry if this is a dumb question, but why do people always insist that recording yourself is useful?
What can be useful about listening to a recording of something you just experienced? I have ears that are pretty close to the bell of my tuba when I play, and I can hear what is coming out of it. All you are doing by recording yourself is using a crutch to listen to some things, and skewing your perception on others (most recordings won't be the same quality your ears can offer!). Try just listening WHILE you play. It is a useful skill to develope.

Recording gives a completely different perspective on the sound. Your hearing while playing is good, yes, from a positional perspective, but there are some things you may not be able to pick up while playing, since you should be thinking about any number of things.
1)articulations. Your ears can't really pick up clarity here as well as a mic, or another person. What you hear as crisp, while playing, can easily be muddy out front. Slurs are a whole 'nuther problem, but you won't hear them as well, either, from your playing perspective.
2) pitch yes, pitch can fool you. If you were certain of playing each note perfectly in tune, you wouldn't need to push/pull slides, lip pitches into place, or use alternate fingerings (read: YOU as WE...I don't know your specific situation)

3) rhythm It's doubtful that you can be completely sure of how rhythms are coming out, from behind the horn. There are simply too many things going on.

4) tone again, your head is so full of vibrations while playing that you really can't be a truly good judge of your tone until you've reached a high level of performance. Even then...I'd bet, if you ask 50 teachers/players, 45 will say they record practice sessions at least occasionally. Probably 25-30 would say regularly.

Essentially, recording lets you hear yourself as others hear you. If you're so absolutely sure that your playing is perfect in every aspect, get thineself to Detroit or any other audition, and you'll have a gig. IF you're not at the point where others may as well give up when you walk in the room, recording and playback can only help, IF you listen well, pay attention to the good and not-so-good, and correct.
||: Lather, rinse, repeat |

The arrogance of saying you can hear everything best while playing says to me that you have a lot of playing growth to do, and probably even more musical growth.

Yes, I said it.

[Roger Lewis]

What you ARE doing, and what you THINK you are doing are two completely different things. For example, the actor. The gesture he makes on stage is bigger than you would see in real life. This is so that even the people in the cheap seats can understand the meaning of the gesture. If it is too subtle, even you will miss it.

Get to a teacher.
Roger

[ztuba]

45 minutes on 45 minutes off and use ice after you're done .. it sounds like you injured your face. Myabe take a few days off before you restart.

[LoyalTubist]

Eating is good for you... right?

So if eating a steak, potato, vegetables, and something to drink provides substantial nutrition and you feel healthy, maybe...

to feel really healthy, eat four times that!

It's not healthy. And neither is practicing too long. You should think of playing tuba as a physical activity. It is.

[MaryAnn]

I bought a Zoom H4 recorder from Amazon for about $275. I think the H2 is cheaper and would do the trick. It has a built-in mike that records tuba very well (as evidenced by recordings I made of our brass quintet) so you don't need to also buy a mike.

When I'm playing, I tend to hear the best of what I played, and I tend to forget the worst. Listening to a recording is an unbelievable eye-opener. Even if you are playing well, you can hear the more subtle things in a recording, that could make the difference between doing a stellar audition and sounding so-so.

MA