Sousaphone from hell

[LoyalTubist]

Check out the photos of the tubas that were used by jazz tubists in the 1920s and they all used the most common sousaphone that was available. Usually, the body was twisted around and placed in a stand (which always looked rather awkward to me) and the bell was aimed somewhere at the ceiling at an angle (which really didn't matter all that much).

[EdFirth]

Most sousaphones have two tuning bits that are totally adjustable to get the comfortable angle for playing . Disney made us play Yamahas in the late 80's because Yamaha wanted to be the official instrument at Disney World .Those huge stickers on the bell were added at that time for the filmshoots , Christmas , Easter , etc. , and they were originally for bass drums . As far as rubber sousaphones go they are OK ,the body is similar to a 20K Conn and while they will never sound like an Alexander they are playable eith a good sound . Like Mr Jacobs said it's the tuba in your head , not the one in your hands ,or something like that . If you are going to buy one the best sounding/blowing sousaphones are , in my opinion , the Conn 14K's which are also fairly light which might not sem that important now but will when you get a little older . Dillon has one on their website now . All the best , Ed

[bearphonium]

Gotta get the sousaphone bits. I use four on my borrowed King fiberglass sousaphone, but 2-3 seems to be the norm. As far as the logo...decorate! You can get a small flag (US, Pirate, Rainbow) and hang it in the bell to cover the logo. I had a POW/MIA flag for the Vets day parade we did, and got some good feedback from that. Plumbers tape takes care of most bell rattles.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I don't know...I think Mike Roylance and I did ok on those "crappy" Yamaha fiberglass sousaphones at Disney World back in the day. Maybe we just didn't realize they were crappy horns and just picked them up and played.

[Matt G]

I don't know...I think Mike Roylance and I did ok on those "crappy" Yamaha fiberglass sousaphones at Disney World back in the day. Maybe we just didn't realize they were crappy horns and just picked them up and played.

I agree. I felt that the fiberglass (Disney) Yamaha sousaphone played better than the brass (UCF) ones. The fiberglass one had the first valved slide flipped so it could be pulled (and the conversion was an excellent job) and it had solid false tones. Plus it was light!

Methinks there was either a malfunctioning piece of equipment, or operator error. Those sousaphones aren't that bad.

[EdFirth]

I was a full time tuba player at Disney from 1983 to 2000 . I certainly know Mike Roylance but who is Todd Malicoate? What band were you in ? Ed

[Matt G]

Wade, they were mildly modified. Instead of the slide pull for tuning being on the lower side of the first valve loop, it was moved to the upper side. The valves were also extra smooth, for whatever reason, IIRC. Other than that they seemed stock. However, this might sound like a conspiracy, but maybe knowing that they were going to Disney to be played by better-than-average players, they might have picked some "winners" before shipping them out of either Japan or Grand Rapids. I can't remember the person(s)'s name, but every Disney-owned sousie had the "first valve flip" done.

Guys like Ed (up above) were very discerning players and the World Band played balls out and in tune all the time. While the sit down stuff used to be done on regular tubas, the marching stuff was done on sousies, albeit brass ones for the World Band, and they were slightly modified so that they could easily be played in tune (first slide flipped, aligned, lapped, and super smooth).

There are some pretty cool mods that can be done to just about all sousaphones that make them much more playable and even enjoyable to play. One I do not recommend is using a plastic (like a SOLO brand) cup for a mouthpiece. This will not work well. I had to do this once because I forgot my piece down in the bandroom and didn't remember until the beginning of the parade route. Thankfully (I guess) we had a track that followed us in addition to a car that played the music turned up to 11. Just kept my hand over the piece and danced and acted like nothing was the matter. Paycheck!

[Steve Marcus]

I have heard fiberglass sousaphones...Ours were Conns and played very well. It is not bad because of the material.

OTOH, I purchased a Conn fiberglass sousaphone (36K?) a few years ago from someone who posts fairly frequently on TubeNet. It played OK with the stock plastic bell. But the seller substituted a brass bell (from a 14K?). Although the horn now doesn't look uniform, the tone quality was significantly improved.

[EdFirth]

Thanks Matt , you're too kind .Those particular ones were stock . Unless none of the others had top pull 1st slides . I think we sounded good on them was because we played them alot . Yamaha , at that time was equipping ALL of the players out there for free in their bid to be the official instrument at Disney World . We also had tubas . They just passed around a wish list and you picked . The reed players got all of their doubles , Tha trumpet players got fluglehorns , and so on .
if those sousaphones were modified it must have been at the factory because the laquer was perfect . We had just started using sousaphones . Before that everything was on your own tuba . The first attempt at marching horns was a pair of Conn helicons that we got to try from Mike Lynch . Mike Davis , our boss , didn't like that they pointed to one side so they found a Conn 20K at a music store in Tampa that had just been overhauled and bought a cosmetically challenged one from me and got it overhauled . They both had the first slide switched . Later , after I had split to Germany and the studios two days each , they bought new Kings . When they cut it to one tuba in 98' I came back and played a silver 14K that I got from the warehouse .Hank now has that one and it's sister and plays them in The Notorious Banjo Bros. and Bob . The new World band guys each have two new brass ,one silver , one laquer sousaphones . Trivia fix .Ed

[jonesbrass]

I like the long valve stroke metal Conns and the Kings that we used in my Army band. I have played a lot of Sousaphones and these two models always make me more or less happy.

In the army band I played in, we used satin-silver finished King Sousas with a bright silver finish in the bell. The only thing that really bugged me about those horns was that somehow there was ALWAYS at least one sticky valve (usually valve #1). Kept me turned off to piston horns for a VERY long time.
I believe that some sousas are bad horns, and some are good. For whatever reason, in my experience the bad sousaphones were far more frequent.

[r smith]

If you think you have a problem try this!! http://indiansousa.blogspot.com/" target="_blank
Ron

[ztuba]

we call them tupperware tubas here in vegas or at least we did when I was in high school ... way back when...

[iiipopes]

For someone who has problems with souzys, it is usually a combination of everything posted here-to-fore: bad maintenance and repairs; lost, missing, or non-standard parts; bad treatment; deficient horns; etc. Souzys do go through hell. The 38K has numerous repairs, patches, dents, worn plating, etc. from its 79 years of trenchwork. But I wouldn't trade it, because it has been repaired properly, outfitted correctly, and now treated fairly. The sound is huge, supportive and awesome, even in the hands of a hack like myself.

I suggest that anyone who is experienced in tuba but just starting out on a souzy get a good pre-Macmillian Conn 14K, have it gone through and set up properly with a good modern gooseneck and two good bits, have the upper first valve loop converted to a slide for the left hand, and go for it with something like a Blessing 18 so it has a combination of good breadth and projection, the "slots" wide enough to lip a little, and set the 3rd valve slide long for 2+3 to be in tune. With these souzys generally having good "false pedals," the weight of a 4th valve is not needed.

Every so often I still pickup the Conn Cavalier (predecessor to the 14K) I played for awhile in Shrine band, and remind myself how lucky I was to get such a good horn to get back up to speed playing as a comeback player.

[Tom Holtz]

I played on one of those fiberglass Yamahas in the 1988 Disney Band in Anaheim. I was very happy with the horn I had. That thing played great. Haven't really liked any other sousaphone before or since.

OP had a POS.

[tubatom91]

I am not sure about anybody else on this board but I cannot play King sousaphones, or King copies (jupiter). I am too big or they are too small, I cant figure out which one it is. Yamaha's are just about the right size, I enjoy playing Conn's to (mostly the 20K). Take that into account before buying a sousaphone. At least try it on first!

[windshieldbug]

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I was a full time tuba player at Disney from 1983 to 2000 . I certainly know Mike Roylance but who is Todd Malicoate? What band were you in ? Ed

Hi, Ed. I was in the 1988 "All-American College Marching Show Band" in Orlando, where I played tuba next to Mike and piano for the "sit-down" sets. I came back in 1989 to play electric bass in the "All-American College Show Band"...we did the "Best of Disney" show in front of the castle with the lip-synching dancers and several characters (which, sadly, I hear hasn't been used in some time). I'm surprised you don't remember me - I was the tuba player who twisted an ankle doing a 360 with the sousaphone and was laid up for a couple of weeks (the backstage area was a lot of fun whipping around in a wheelchair!).

I may have met you backstage at some point, but as I remember we had very little interaction with the professional band members (I'm assuming you were in the World Band at the time?). We would rarely get to the park before the afternoon...only when we rehearsed with a guest artist before our sets (which is when I recall seeing some of the World Band players around the band room), and we would pretty much finish our sets and pile into the vans for the trip back to Kissimmee in the early evening.

As for the horns we used, Wade, I'm reasonably sure they were "stock," but I really have no way of knowing for sure if they were modified. They weren't, of course, the best sousaphones I've ever played, but I clearly remember feeling surprised that they were as good as they were. They seemed well in tune, open-blowing (not stuffy), and quite hard to overblow (everything I like in a sousaphone). The benefit of the really light weight may have tempered my opinions, though.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I played on one of those fiberglass Yamahas in the 1988 Disney Band in Anaheim. I was very happy with the horn I had. That thing played great. Haven't really liked any other sousaphone before or since.

OP had a POS.

Wow, Tom...all these years of posting on TubeNet and admiring your accomplishments in "The President's Own" and I never realized you are a Disney alum from the same year as me. What happened to your section mate in Anaheim that year? Am I the only Disney college tuba player from the summer of 1988 without a gig?

[iiipopes]

I am not sure about anybody else on this board but I cannot play King sousaphones, or King copies (jupiter). I am too big or they are too small, I cant figure out which one it is. Yamaha's are just about the right size, I enjoy playing Conn's to (mostly the 20K). Take that into account before buying a sousaphone. At least try it on first!

Yamahas are copied from the old Buescher design, which is derivative of the Conn, but the Yammys have thinner metal. If you like the way a Yammy fits, then you will like an old Buescher or Conn 14K even better, as they are better balanced fore to aft.

Having played both, I can see what a person means about the Kings not fitting. They fit me fine, but I'm not quite so tall.

Also, with all due respect, I fail to see the advantage of cutting a King to CC, as you lose the low F unless the horn has really good false partials, which most don't, because with the smaller .687 bore they are in tune, but grainy sounding. And adding a 4th valve to get all that back defeats the purpose of lightening the horn by cutting to CC. And without the 4th valve, there is not a reasonable way of converting the tight top loop of the 1st valve slide on a King valve block to be a left hand movable slide for intonation, as can be done on a Conn. Also, the main tuning slide on a King is in tubing before the valve block, so the entire block has to be redesigned for a new main tuning slide on the backside out of the block. It's just not cost effective. Just my observations from considering doing this very thing a few years ago, as I had access to a retired King pre-cyborg souzy that would have been a good candidate for such.

[iiipopes]

Elephant: our respective experiences have been completely different. I'm glad you have found good ones to play.