Tubas and deafness/hearing impairment

[tubafatness]

So, I have an idea, but I don't know if it is feasible. I'm convinced that there is a way to use the tuba and its music to help those who have severe hearing loss and/or are deaf. There is such a high amount of vibration with the tuba that most people with this type of impairment could at the very least touch the instrument and feel the sound waves as they come out of the bell. I have a sketchy memory of someone doing some work along this line before, but I am not sure about that.

My main question is, does anyone with more knowledge in this area think my idea could work? What if, supposing that a group of tubas could put out enough physical sound to reach those with hearing disabilities, people could start having tuba ensemble shows for deaf children and adults? Imagine taking a group of kids from the many various schools for the deaf and giving them a concert that they can actually hear-something like Tuba Christmas, or any sort of massed tuba ensemble concert. I especially think that the TubaChristmas shows would be the perfect place for this type of work; besides the visual aspect, there is always a lot to see at these types of concerts!

Now, all of this thinking on my part is dependent on whether deaf and hearing impaired people can actually sense the sound of the tuba, especially if a bunch of the instruments are massed together. I don't have enough background in acoustics and the physiology of deafness to know if this is really the case, but I hope to at some point. If anyone with an opinion on this matter would like to comment, please do so! I am looking for all the help I can get.

Thanks,
Aaron H.

[imperialbari]

Your topic is most interesting.

In my country there has been done research with music therapy. I never worked with that topic myself, and it is long ago I read about it. Such work likely has happened in several countries.

One researcher worked with the deaf children and found that they sort of craved for the experience of hearing music. The brain apparatus was there, but it wasn’t stimulated sufficiently.

Btw. there are at least two types of hearing impairment. The inner ear nerve perception system may be damaged or absent. And/or the sound transmission through the cranial bone structures may be diminished.

The stellar sample of alternative hearing is about that Scott female percussionist, famous, but her name not coming to my mind right now.

The Danish work with kids was less sophisticated, but as said met with enthusiasm by the kids. The main tools were from the Orff instrumentarium, which works with xylophones and metallophones plus all sorts of non-tuned percussion. The selection for this kind of work was about the large bass xylophone notes mounted on each their own resonator box, which can be arranged in smaller groups of 2, 3, 4, or more depending on the tonalities worked with. The vibrations can be sensed with the fingers directly from the sides of the box or through wooden floors.

I have a cousin born without the nerves connecting ears and brain. Totally deaf. At a big party made for her in an old village community house with wooden floors her father had asked the drummer not to bring his bass drum, but to stomp the rhythm directly on the floor and she danced all night.

When I first bought my Conn 26K, I demonstrated it for some fellow players at a rehearsal in an old house with rather loose floor planks. I was standing with the sousaphone on my shoulder. The very non-deaf trombone girl told that she could sense the vibrations through her feet. The vibrations in the air hardly would have agitated the floor that much, as I did not play especially loud. The vibrations rather were transported through my bones to the floor.

Tubas placed on a playing stand likely would be the optimal transmitters for the deaf and hearing impaired.

I am not always convinced of low range tuba ensemble playing, as the sounds may get muddy. The deaf sensing the vibrations through the floor hardly will be better equipped to sort out the harmonies. However duet playing like the transcription of the Bach violin concerto as performed by Gene Pokorny and Rex Martin very likely would be perceived well. Maybe even best if the players were placed in stereo positions on each side of the through-the-floor-listeners.

I once played a concert at a school for blind kids. They of course were very trained listeners. After the concert they were very eager to touch the instruments unknown to them. My horn wasn’t the most interesting, but they went crazy, when they with their fingertips could establish the relationship of the physical action of the timpani heads and the sound reaching their ears.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[Carroll]

Just an observation, but I think you are on to something.
The empirical evidence of my experience is this:

older persons in churches I play are mostly hearing impaired - not deaf(so interpolate your own conclusions)

these persons respond very favorably to euphonium as compared to higher pitched instruments (tuba would be yet another octave lower)

these same persons respond well to organ selections with extensive pedal work

a lot of these folks are grouchy and usually say nothing nice... to anyone.

Of course, part of the result could come from music selection. Most of what I play is "old time" hymn based and most of what others play is "modern" praise chorus based or from the "classical" genre. I would like to hear results of your endeavors. I think our music is a gift that we are charged to give back in some way.

[imperialbari]

Of course, part of the result could come from music selection. Most of what I play is "old time" hymn based and most of what others play is "modern" praise chorus based or from the "classical" genre. I would like to hear results of your endeavors. I think our music is a gift that we are charged to give back in some way.

I may understand you wrongly, but I read you like you are the director or the organist at your church.

If you have the bass line doubled in the 16' range, it also will support the older members of the congregation singing along, if the melody is doubld in the 16' (here the tenor-) range be it by an organ stop, trombone, or euphonium.

Klaus

[Tom]

Check out the book "Good Vibrations" and the movie "Touching the Sound," both done by profoundly deaf percussionist Evelyn Glennie.

There might some information of interest to you.

[jmerring]

As a completely deaf player of the tuba, I can give some very direct input into this thread. My performances are with a concert band/wind ensemble. The horn (Miarphone 186 BBb) does indeed, give strong tactile feedback to me, but I have the notes in my head, prior to playing them. Having played for more than 40 years, it is natural to me. Of course, I was not always deaf; having lost it completely, about 16 years ago. My loss is because of neurofibromatosis (NF), and my hearing nerves are crushed, with no possible corrective procedure or treatment. There is also the business of tinnitus (head noise), which is quite distracting, but again, the notes are there and the horn just enforces the correctness of pitch. The Miraphone 191 BBb gives an ENORMOUS amount of feedback and I would love to have one, but I am unable control the tuning, due to the extremely large bore).

The main concern is that of staying on the beat and counting the rests, properly. For this (and all the rest of the playing), I must be HIGHLY focused on the director for a clear and concise beat pattern. One trick has been to memorize at least 2 measures ahead, so that my attention is more closely devoted to the director. It must be said at this point, that I am unable to play without a director. My 'counting sense' is almost gone, without one. Unfortunately, I am completely detached from ANY sounds, other than an occasional tympani roll (loud). It is not a perfect system, but ( I am told), I am more than a capable player; but it works pretty well.***

The tympanist that you mention, uses some of these tricks, but has more of a connection to the music, by floor vibrations. She always has an eye on the conductor for cues.


***This line was edited, because members of my wind ensemble thought that I was being too modest...history will be the judge. jm

[rocksanddirt]

Just an observation, but I think you are on to something.
The empirical evidence of my experience is this:

older persons in churches I play are mostly hearing impaired - not deaf(so interpolate your own conclusions)

these persons respond very favorably to euphonium as compared to higher pitched instruments (tuba would be yet another octave lower)

these same persons respond well to organ selections with extensive pedal work

a lot of these folks are grouchy and usually say nothing nice... to anyone.

Of course, part of the result could come from music selection. Most of what I play is "old time" hymn based and most of what others play is "modern" praise chorus based or from the "classical" genre. I would like to hear results of your endeavors. I think our music is a gift that we are charged to give back in some way.

I've noticed some similar comments from the less hearing able members of our congregation. Our chior director likes a lot (A LOT) of bass. She often plays bass, while I play tuba.

[TubaRay]

It is not a perfect system, nor am I much more than a capable player; but it works pretty well.

I must say I am impressed that you can be a capable player. Being more than a capable player would be awe-inspiring. I'm happy to know that you can continue to play.

[Donn]

What if, supposing that a group of tubas could put out enough physical sound to reach those with hearing disabilities, people could start having tuba ensemble shows for deaf children and adults?

Looks like there's plenty of evidence in support of something along these lines. From an objective point of view, though, you'd have to account for why something like electric bass and a drum kit wouldn't be more effective, and easier to round up.

[Darren]

Hmmm there are some kind of physical therapy treatment which can help for the by birth deaf people people but they dont give any guarantee for this but sometimes it can help.....

[jmerring]

I am completely deaf and played with the condition for many years (a Yamaha 201 and my beloved Miraphone 186 BBb's). My take is that playing the horn is the easy part. You DO feel the vibrations and get a true feel for what you are performing. The downside, is that you tend to play scared; of missing an entrance, hitting a correct cold note, etc. Most of the others in the brass section (and of course; the conductor) will aid you or berate you, as needed.

The hardest part is counting and the aforementioned entrances and exits.

There already exists a bone-conducting hearing aid, that is of some help, depending on the type and severity of loss

[ginnboonmiller]

Music Therapy for the hearing impaired has been going on for a long time. Listening (and feeling) and playing, both, have proved very effective in terms of giving deaf and hearing impaired children help in socializing.

Funny twist on this: my wife is hearing impaired, but her loss is in low and low-mid frequencies. A big part of our happy marriage can be credited to my ability to practice whenever I like without her being bothered in the slightest.