what is the lowest note you can play (good tone or bad)

[eupher61]

I can readily, and pleasantly, play the bottom of the piano A on my F. On occasion I can nail the G below that, but that's not routine. Oddly, that range speaks better on my big F than on my pea shooter BBb.

OK, maybe not so oddly.

[oedipoes]

Regularly use an Eb (1+4 on BBb tuba) at the end of a quiet brass band piece we do.

F is pretty common in brass bands these days. Written or dropped.

How do you play that F on the BBb tuba? If compensated, that would be in tune with 4th valve only?
And just to be sure:
Where is that low Eb (in C) to be found on a transposed BBb brass band part? Is it just hanging below the staff or is it one octave below that? I still can't believe someone playing one octave below the staff (on transposed parts).
I drop the note hanging below the staff regularly in rehersals, and that sounds already impressive together with the Eb one octave higher.

thx,

Wim

[Steve Marcus]

One of the elements of playing the BBb Bass part in brass band that I enjoy is the opportunity to play those pedal tones in a legitimate setting. If one reads the forums such as 4barsrest.com and theMouthpiece.com, there is a constant debate about whether BBb Bass players should take liberties in dropping the octave below the ink.

FWIW, in Chicago Brass Band (from which I am currently on Leave of Absence and missing it very much), the BBb Bass players generally play the ink on serious compositions such as Test Pieces and those that were originally written specifically for brass band. On transcriptions, arrangements, pop songs, and the warm-up/warm-down chorale, we might drop the octave. IMHO, going down to FFF or perhaps EEE can still contain enough warmth of tone and pitch recognition that it can contribute to the overall sound of the band--if used with discretion. Below those pitches, even if one can play them, the sound may be detrimental to the ensemble.

[Rick Denney]

Lowest note I've played is a double pedal Bb at 14.567618 Hertz.

Is that not below the range of human hearing? Only an elephant would hear!

You can hear the overtones. I suspect the actual pedal frequency is very weak in the resulting sound. Even playing higher notes (such as the 58-Hz low Bb), I found that the fundamental was some 4-8 dB less than the fourth overtone, and far less than the sum of the higher overtones. We hear the pitch because of the difference tones between those overtones, which are at 58-Hz intervals up the spectrum.

I don't know how low Gene played in his demonstration at the Army conference, but it's about the only playing in the lower pedal register that didn't sound like escaping bodily gases of the sort not acceptable in polite company. Much of the tuba playing I hear down in that range is not musical, and sounds like flatulence even when the frequency is correct.

But that may just be jealousy. I've never been able to make reasonable sounds in the pedal register on a contrabass tuba of any size. I can usually play lower on an F tuba than a Bb tuba.

The lowest I've ever been asked to play was dropping the octave in one of the arrangements of Greensleeves. I think it went down to maybe a D or a C above the Bb pedal. I played it using false tones, which was the only way I could play it. The conductor liked the result, but I didn't. I know people who are much poorer players than I am overall, but who can play pedals better than I can. Some of them have insisted on doing it at every opportunity. Yuck.

Rick "who does practice false tones below F" Denney

[Phil Dawson]

Roger Bobo has recorded the double-pedal c (16 Hz in Encounters II. It takes very large and good speakers to reproduce it but it is there. The note can be played by us mere mortals but it may take years (it did for me) to get to the point where you can play this note which there is almost no call for. The reason for playing this low is that the notes above the lowest note you can play will become cleaner. It is just like playing in the high register - your highest note may not sound great but those below it may sound pretty good. If you raise or lower the range you can play the middle will become larger too.
Phil

[Wyvern]

The reason for playing this low is that the notes above the lowest note you can play will become cleaner. It is just like playing in the high register - your highest note may not sound great but those below it may sound pretty good. If you raise or lower the range you can play the middle will become larger too.

This is the best reason I have heard for practicing those extreme ranges. You might just motivate me!

[Phil Dawson]

It's a real kick to play both a double pedal C and a double high C. I only managed the high one once or twice but I still have fun with the low one. It's always fun to put the contra bassoon player in his place if he or she has that double reed attitude. Also going more than an octave lower than the basses is fun too.
Go for it - it just may take some time to get there, Phil

[Phil Dawson]

Are your speakers capable of going that low? Maybe they are only reproducing the first overtone. I wouldn't want to even suggest that Maestro Bobo would fudge and take a note up an octave. Do you suppose he wasn't good enough to cut it when he made the recording?
I guess it is his honor and honesty against your "trained ear" and expensive electronic tuner. Have you checked the specs on your tuner? All but a very few won't go down that low and if it does did your speakers reproduce the note properly?.
Phil

[Steve Marcus]

But just because there is a low, slow, flapping sound does NOT mean it is an accurate CCCC.

I remember years before the first CDs were issued to the public, I recorded Encounters II from my Crystal LP of Roger Bobo onto my reel-to-reel deck at 3 3/4 ips due to my curiosity about the note in question. Then I played back the tape at 7 1/2 ips so that I could hear one octave above the original recording.

Robert Coulter speaketh the truth. The result was (is) not a true CCC.

[The Jackson]

Has anyone or does anyone know of someone who has contacted William Kraft about "the note"? I think that written CCCC could be interpreted as just a super-low note (or low-sounding note) and that the performer should not be aiming straight for the C and instead just play a depth charge. To use a recent example, I think Mr. Kraft did something very similar to what Tan Dun did in his "Internet Symphony No. 1". If you've seen the part or watched Patrick Harrild's masterclass video, Dun notates a D above the staff with an "x" notehead and the parenthetical "as high as possible" above it. Kraft may have done the very same thing, only in the opposite direction, calling for as low a note as possible.



Or I could be completely over-thinking it.

[Matt G]

It is possible to get 15 Hz out... it's just really hard. To clarify on my earlier statement, I can't get a double pedal out on just any tuba... I usually play on a Miraphone 186, which is just way too open for me to play it. On a piece-of-crap Yamaha that's about fifty years old, however, there is enough resistance to get that pitch out. I can get the same note out on my Miraphone by pressing down all the valves, pulling out my slides, and lipping it down a bit

Now I KNOW you are just wrong. If you are playing on a four valve BBb tuba, you simply DO NOT have enough length of tubing to produce a BBBBBb. Pull every slide you have and you will STILL be short.....

I'll send $20 to ANYONE who can play a CCCC or lower that can be proven musically.

RC
(Jebus.....)

This is pretty much the truth. The only horn I ever owned that was capable of producing a pitch that was an octave below the open fundamental was my 188CC. It had the 2-3 combo fifth valve, and you could play pedal C with all five. At one time, my low chops were pretty good, and I could get "near" the 32' fundamental, but the lips really don't want to oscillate that slowly. Realistically I could get to the E above that C, and the G below pedal C was loud. Solid loud. But that extra fifth is a looooooooooong stretch.

[Wyvern]

Oh yeah, and so we're clear.... We are talking about notes lower than this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP5YrADzK4U

RC

That sounds very much like what I heard from elephants when on safari in Botswana

[k001k47]

I'll send $20 to ANYONE who can play a CCCC or lower that can be proven musically.

Wow, that seemed to shut everyone up.... I guess no one wants my money....

RC

Lend me a BBb or CC tuba and I'll give it a go.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Wow, that seemed to shut everyone up.... I guess no one wants my money

Shucks...I was looking forward to hearing the "attempts." Didn't someone say they would make a recording this weekend???

[Tuba Guy]

Well, now that I have my little C back, I'll give it a shot. Now, is this the C 2 octaves below the staff, or 3? (or 4)?

[k001k47]

Well, now that I have my little C back, I'll give it a shot. Now, is this the C 2 octaves below the staff, or 3? (or 4)?

Or 5?

[Tuba Guy]

Good point...can someone clarify just which octave will get the $20?

[The Jackson]

I don't C what the big problem is.

[Arkietuba]

On a typical day I can get to a pedal E (off of the piano) and on a good day around a pedal D. One day I swear I hit a C below the fundamental C of my horn! It was out of tune but it was there...lol

[Arkietuba]

It was out of tune but it was there...lol

How out of tune? 5 cents? 50 cents? 150 cents????

RC
(who is digging this thread)

I didn't have a tuner out...plus I'm pretty sure a tuner wouldn't pick up that note. If I had to guess I would say somewhere between 20-30 cents...but it was still a "C"...lol