The Hindemith

[jspeek]

I have been listening to the Glenn Gould and Abe Torchinsky recording of the Hindemith. The tempos taken are pretty slow. When I asked one of Torchinksy's students about the tempo, he said that Hindemith and Glenn Gould knew each other and that Gould had told Torchinsky to play that tempo. I remember reading an interview with Torchinsky, where he talked about recording that cd, but I don't recall him mentioning the tempos. I could be mistaken. All the other recordings I've heard are at the quicker tempo. Is there anyone who plays the Glenn Gould tempo?

My teacher taught me the Gould tempo, which is hard to do if you grew up listening to Bobo's tempo.

[JB]

Hindemith grew up in the modern era where the MM tempos were precise and reliable. In other words, he knew what he wanted and prescribed.

Despite a substantial amount of researc into the Sonate, I have not encountered ANYTHING to remotely substantiate Gould's claim (if accurate -- and I have no doubt that he did direct such). I have also had substantial discussions about these Gould recordings with Henry Charles Smith, who also performed on the sessions.

Nobody plays these tempos per Glenn Gould. As brilliant as he was, no. Simply, no.

What is on page one of the part is accurate for MM.

(I would be curious to learn of your teacher's reasoning for following the "Gould tempo." Please let us know.)

[JB]

Perhaps, for the pianist's sake...

I certainly agree with that perspective, especially when the accompanist has other works to play with you on a programme!! (Better to have 'em "with ya" rather than "agin ya"!!)

[Mister JP]

One thing one of my instructors told me about Gould was that he was always one to make sure any of HIS recordings were unique in some way. His school of thought was 'why record something the same way it always gets recorded.' Apparently taking the Hindemith slow was his way of doing so.

Gould was one strange dude, if you think you have some odd quirks, read up on Glenn Gould.

[tubashaman2]

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[eupher61]

Not having the score in front of me, nor the Gould/Torchinsky recordings, I know of one spot where tempo indication is rarely followed: The last section, where the tuba has quarter notes with an appoggiatura to the 3rd of the series, with the piano answering. Is that the last 8 bars or so? Check the mm indication--according to that, it should be HALF the tempo that Bobo, and seemingly everyone since then, did it. I don't remember what the Gould/Mr T recording has at that point, though.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Not having the score in front of me, nor the Gould/Torchinsky recordings, I know of one spot where tempo indication is rarely followed: The last section, where the tuba has quarter notes with an appoggiatura to the 3rd of the series, with the piano answering.

You are referring to the first movement and bring up a good point, as many players do miss the indication there (myself included when I played the sonata as an undergraduate). Hindemith indicates the new dotted half note should be equal to the old whole note (an entire bar of the 2/2 section before). It is essentially half as fast as the beginning tempo of the movement.

I agree with most of the posters here...effort should be made to respect the composer's wishes (especially when he goes to the trouble of using metronome value markings) rather than some particular "artist," no matter how well respected or quirky.

[tubashaman2]

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[jspeek]

Glenn Gould knew Hindemith personally and told the Philly Brass players that that was the way Hindemith wanted them performed (the slower tempo). But, I guess that would beg the question of why he would say that, and then put different tempo markings.

[josh_kaprun]

From what I understand, the marked tempos were not put in by Hindemith himself, they were added later by the publisher. So, if Gould said that he talked to Hindemith and Hindemith told him the correct tempos, Gould probably played them at the actual correct tempos.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Is there any reference to substantiate Glenn Gould's relationship to Hindemith (knew him personally, told him the tempi he intended)?

I would find it more believable that Hindemith communicated with the publisher of his works (Schott) about the metronomic markings (who then included them in the published music) than he told one "friend" who proceeded to record them differently than everyone else.

But, I'm certainly open-minded to the idea that Gould is right about the tempi and everyone else is wrong. I'd just like to see some evidence of that before I radically change my thoughts about the Tuba Sonata. Perhaps there's a well-written article about the background of the Tuba Sonata in Brass Anthology or some similar periodical? College students...step up and accept the research challenge!