York 6/4 BBb tuba conversion

[Cameron Gates]

Cameron, I wonder if you could be a little more specific with your question - - -

Did you mean to say, "was the MW bell then engraved to make the bell look like a York bell", or "was the MW bell then engraved to give the impression that this horn is a York"?

I believe that it would be obvious to most that York didn't furnish their BBb basses with detachable leadpipes, Valve sections and 5th valve assemblies in 1915. Although the most important part of any tuba (the branches and bottom bow) are completely original and unaltered on this horn, nobody is making the claim that it is an original York.

If you don't have an agenda, please forgive me. If you do, please try to be a little more clear - it leaves the impression that you don't have the courage of your convictions.

No agenda, just lust. was the engraving done in this country? Could we get a close-up of the work. It looks very impressive.

[roweenie1]

I'm glad that you all feel as you do. The primary purpose of this thread was to call attention to Mr. Wilk's mastery of instrument building. I apologise again for any assumptions that I have jumped to....In the immortal words of Felix Unger, "when you assume, you make an *** of u and me"

As far as I know, this engraving (which I will try to post soon) is not a standard York pattern (although "back in the day", you could pay extra to put whatever engraving you wanted on the horn). I believe the engraving was done by Sherry Huntley, of Indiana - Martin would know for sure.

As I said, I had the option of going with the original 22" bell, but I felt that the sound produced with the MW 20" bell was slightly more of what I was looking for (also, it fits in the trunk of my car better ).

[DavidK]

I had a great conversation with Martin today about this horn. What a wonderful discussion we had on all things tuba!!!

roweenie - hope you can get some clear detailed pics of the engraving posted.
To cut to the chase - it was lust at first sight!

To paraphrase Martin: The bell engraving was outsourced to the folks that do a lot of reproduction bell work. They have a website. My understanding is that they embellished and expanded upon whatever source example was used as a starting point. Much more expansive than a 'traditional' York Art Deco scroll engraving. And huge when compared to the floral wreath York engravings.

Even the out of focus pics look like very impressive work in this department!!!

From my conversation with Martin, looks like I will embark on a project horn, myself (hee hee!!!)

[Rick Denney]

As I said, I had the option of going with the original 22" bell, but I felt that the sound produced with the MW 20" bell was slightly more of what I was looking for (also, it fits in the trunk of my car better ).

Ah, the truth comes out!

But that's the reason I mentioned that Rusk also trims the 22" bells down to 20". He was going for a more focused, and, dare I say it, CC sound.

Rick "noting that re-rolling the bell edge is a more major undertaking than some custom engraving" Denney

[Barney]

http://www.artisticengraving.com/" target="_blank

[DavidK]

That's her !!!!
Sherry Huntley - Artistic Engraving. Beautiful work.

[DavidK]

More Horn dorn !!!

We love it, we live for it, we must have it!!!! (Just for you, Wade!!!)
And you owe it to yourself to have a chat with Martin. It will be worth your while.

[Cameron Gates]

Rick "noting that re-rolling the bell edge is a more major undertaking than some custom engraving" Denney

Is that how he does those cut-downs? I had a Rusk York that appeared to have had the rolled edge cut off, shortened, then soldered back on the smaller bell. Seemed to work and it was nice and rigid.

How would one re-roll the edge without a giant lathe to turn it on?

[Rick Denney]

Is that how he does those cut-downs? I had a Rusk York that appeared to have had the rolled edge cut off, shortened, then soldered back on the smaller bell. Seemed to work and it was nice and rigid.

How would one re-roll the edge without a giant lathe to turn it on?

I honestly don't know how he does it, though "rerolling" was the verb I heard from the one who owned several of the tubas that he converted (who you know). I suspect you can roll a new edge using a slip-roll machine with the right tools, though I'm sure the bell edge would have to be annealed just the right amount so that the process would harden it again. Soldering a rolled edge back on seems a likely possibility, I suppose.

I have played the Rusk York that you owned, I think, but I didn't study the bell rim.

Rick "admiring those instruments a lot" Denney

[roweenie1]

[J.c. Sherman]

What's the diameter of the Chicago/Jake Yorks? Why would someone cut the original bells? I'm queezy just thinking about it!

J.c.S.

(If you don't like the sound to start with, start with another horn... )

[Rick Denney]

What's the diameter of the Chicago/Jake Yorks? Why would someone cut the original bells?

The CSO Yorks have a 20" bell, just like all the Yorkish copies. Old Bb Yorks usually have a 22" bell, and the thinking is that they sound a bit fluffier, and that trimming the bell to 20" tightens them up a bit to make a more orchestral sound.

And they fit in a gig bag a lot easier.

Rick "we report; you decide" Denney

[The Bone Ranger]

Great looking horn!

WIthout wanting to rain on anyone's parade, I have a question for the gallery.

At what point does a horn such as this stop being a York, and become something entirely different? This is a York minus the bell and valve set etc, so can we still call it a York? Does it still sound like a York?

Andrew (who's not wanting to start a war; just curious...)

[eupher61]

I agree. It's hardly a York any more. Who cares, though, it's seemingly a heckuva horn.

OK....the award for the Best Name for This York/MW/Wilk tuba is...

a thunderous round of applause.

"Frankentuba" will NOT suffice.

[bearphonium]

MY Wilk for a name. Drool on the keyboard from the horn dorn.

[J.c. Sherman]

It is sexy, but I don't think this is a York anymore. The bell is the most defining characteristic, in my humble view. Certainly the replacement of the valve set with a front action set has precedent within York's own line, so if followed closely, I think you can still call it a restoration of sorts. Lose the bell, though, and I think you have a lovely - probably awesome and commercially unavailable - BBb piston MW 2165

It's a very nice bit of work, I'd say. Kudos for the maker on the valve tubing!

J.c.

[roweenie1]

While I am not saying that this horn is still an "original" York, I believe that the most important and original parts of a horn are the ones that are most difficult to reproduce (ie, the branches), and they are all still there in their original form. IMHO, the taper of the horn is the most important determining factor in tuba sound and response, so therefore, keeping this feature the same as original is more important than the bell - it is the horn's "body".

I agree about the valve set - it is just a switching mechanism, and has the least effect of all the possible variables.

Ponder this: if the CSO York was in an accident, and the bell was damaged beyond repair and needed a modern replacement, would you stop calling it a York? I've seen many vintage recording-bell horns receive new, modern upright bells - - -

(PS - that was the best I could do on a picture of the engraving - sorry )

(PPS - *DISCLAIMER* - I do not claim to be an expert - these are just observations I have made over the last 35 years, and having owned several different vintage horns.....)

[Barney]

The picture is great, the horn looks beautiful, and I could care less what you call it.

[J.c. Sherman]

Ponder this: if the CSO York was in an accident, and the bell was damaged beyond repair and needed a modern replacement, would you stop calling it a York? I've seen many vintage recording-bell horns receive new, modern upright bells - - -

Saddly, I think it would stop being "the same horn"; it would still be one of "the Yorks" but with a HUGE qualifier to it's title. That said, for that particular instrument, you'd have to melt the bell down before it would be irreparable - it would be fixed no matter what; even the melted bell would probably be used as the base metal to replace it

Same with the classic recording bell instruments with modern replacement bells. They are something altogether new. Sexy, often great, but something else...

J.c.S.

[Alex C]

I just saw your photos and am jealous. I bet it plays as good as it looks.