German Kaiser arrived, HORNPORN !!!!!

[oedipoes]

I'm using a denis wick 2L now.

Rather too deep than too wide.

A wide and shallowish German mouthpiece might be the jazz solution for you. But never expect a tuba to replace a bass trombone soundwise. The attempts rather will go ugly than trombonish.

K

Maybe the 2.5CC from D W is something.
I know someone that plays one, so I'll give that one a try.

[oedipoes]

I remembered I did not yet measure the bore of the Kaiser.
If I'm correct, that should be measured by pulling the 2nd valve slide and measuring the outer diameter of the inner slide, correct?

This is it: 22mm !!
That's bigger than a cerveny 701 BBb kaiser if I'm correct.

To compare with the bore of the Yamaha, I put them next to each other.
Take a look at the pictures.
Enjoy,

Wim

[imperialbari]

The bore is measured as the inner diameter of the male branches of the 2nd slide.

A very few makers like Willson and Sterling make their instruments appear larger by telling the outer diameter of the same 2nd valve male branches.

Klaus

[oedipoes]

The bore is measured as the inner diameter of the male branches of the 2nd slide.

A very few makers like Willson and Sterling make their instruments appear larger by telling the outer diameter of the same 2nd valve male branches.

Klaus

hold on 2 minutes, I get back to you right away

[oedipoes]

That's 21.4mm.

thanks for correcting me, I'm used to hydraulic tubing, where the outer diameter and wall thickness is designated

wim

[imperialbari]

That's 21.4mm.

thanks for correcting me, I'm used to hydraulic tubing, where the outer diameter and wall thickness is designated

wim

Which equals 0.843". Quite impressive.

Klaus

[Wyvern]

Which compares to 0.827 for the Cerveny and 0.846 for the Fafner = so larger than the 701 and just a fraction less than the Fafner. Impressive indeed!

[oedipoes]

Which compares to 0.827 for the Cerveny and 0.846 for the Fafner = so larger than the 701 and just a fraction less than the Fafner. Impressive indeed!

Jonathan, what mouthpiece goes with the 701 and Neptune ?

My impression:

The Yamaha was less than nothing soundwise, with the original mouthpiece. I bought the DW 2L and succeeded in making the sound larger.
With the kaiser, the 2L seems to be too deep, (I need more bite if I want to) and I will look for the same rim, but shallower cup.

Is instrument bore and mouthpiece depth related to each other?
larger bore-> shallower mouthpiece
smaller bore-> deeper mouthpiece

There's probably a lot of accoustical research made already about this topic.

Wim

[imperialbari]

The Yamaha was less than nothing soundwise, with the original mouthpiece. I bought the DW 2L and succeeded in making the sound larger.
With the kaiser, the 2L seems to be too deep, (I need more bite if I want to) and I will look for the same rim, but shallower cup.

Is instrument bore and mouthpiece depth related to each other?
larger bore-> shallower mouthpiece
smaller bore-> deeper mouthpiece

There's probably a lot of accoustical research made already about this topic.

Wim

I am not so sure about the relations of narrow bore with deep mouthpieces and wide bore with shallow mouthpieces. The divide rather goes between the German style rotary tubas, which most people prefer to play through bowl shaped mouthpieces, and French/British/American piston tubas, which often are played through funnel shaped mouthpieces. There also is something about bass tubas working better with lesser cup volumes than contrabass tubas.

All of these rules indicated have, however, lots of deviations. A recent sample is about the blokepiece, which was designed for a rotary F, but which in the most recent thread is reported to be used on three quite different piston bass tubas.

If you can read German, my brass galleries hold scans of an interview with Bruno Tilz:

A pre-1994 interview with the mouthpiece maker Bruno Tilz from a low-brass seminar in Hammelburg (German text only). (3131KB):

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Yo ... no%20Tilz/

My galleries obviously are organised as Yahoo-groups.

Klaus

[Rick Denney]

Is instrument bore and mouthpiece depth related to each other?
larger bore-> shallower mouthpiece
smaller bore-> deeper mouthpiece

I think it has less to do with the bore and more to do with the overall size of the instrument, and its characteristic tone. Tubas that have a woofy tone (fuzzy attacks and lack of color) need mouthpieces that add harmonic content (color) and add crispness to the attack. In my thinking, resistance is what makes it easier to speak the note crisply, and mouthpieces with more of a bowl shape add that useful resistance.

I'm not sure that divide runs cleanly along the American German divide, and all these characterizations overlap a lot in the middle. Thus, I use a large and open mouthpiece for my York Master, which is a largish 4/4 German tuba that approximately follows an American design concept. The Miraphone already provides crisp attacks and a sound with a lot of harmonic content, so it seems to do well with a funnel-shaped mouthpiece. But for a Rudy Meinl, which is large and dark, my temptation would be something with more of a bowl. And, say, a King sousaphone is as American as apple pie, but it's a bright-sounding tuba that to me benefits from a deep funnel.

My Holton is somewhat of a special case. By large tuba standards, it is quite colorful, clean, and focused. But its size relieves me of the need to emphasize the breadth of the tone, and the instrument does best with a bowl mouthpiece. I used for several years a PT-48, which is a great mouthpiece for a big tuba, and for me added considerable clarity. The Stofer Geib has been even better. The mouthpiece that came with that instrument, a Holton Revelation 52, is probably the woofiest mouthpiece I've ever played short of a Reynolds Dr. Young. On the Miraphone, though, both the PT-48 and the Geib those would for me be a little strong.

I don't see any correlation between these characteristics and bore. But some tubas (of whatever size) with a very large bore seem to have been designed to be "open blowing" to the extent that they provide no resistance at all. That makes them quite difficult for me to play, and a mouthpiece that restores that resistance is a good thing.

Rick "for whom some tubas feel like free buzzing" Denney

[Wyvern]

Jonathan, what mouthpiece goes with the 701 and Neptune ?

As you know mouthpiece choice is very personal, so I can only say what works for me. I usually use a PT-48 on my 701 and a PT-90 on the Neptune.

I have also heard the Stoffer Gieb works well on big tubas, but have yet to try for myself.

[oedipoes]

If you can read German, my brass galleries hold scans of an interview with Bruno Tilz:

A pre-1994 interview with the mouthpiece maker Bruno Tilz from a low-brass seminar in Hammelburg (German text only). (3131KB):

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Yo ... no%20Tilz/

My galleries obviously are organised as Yahoo-groups.

Klaus

Thanks !
It cost me the effort of making a Yahoo account, but it was worth it.
And yes, I do read German.
Tilz would be worth the try, I think, as wel as Josef Klier. Since there is nothing more german-style than my kaiser, I think I would benefit from a German-style mouthpiece.

Has anyone played a Klier or Tilz mouthpiece on a BBb tuba?
Tilz has a Walter Hilgers model, any experience ?

Wim

[iiipopes]

Don't forget that Perantucci has an entire "German" line of mouthpieces, and the PT82 is made for larger tubas. I have one to go with the 38K, if not a 6/4 or "Kaiser" souzy, at least equivalent to a 5/4, and it is very even and very responsive throughout the range.

http://www.custommusiccorp.com/Accessor ... bampc.html" target="_blank