Running-in new tubas

[Wyvern]

I have often heard that new tubas take some months use before they are playing and sounding their best and think I have experienced this myself, but why should this be so?

For my own thoughts; could it be that internal discoloration, or build up of dirt deposit improves playability? Or could this all be down to the player getting fully accustomed to their new tuba?

I would be interested in any explanations/views.

[Dan Schultz]

That's an interesting questions and somewhat parallels what I've said all along... no two horns are alike. AND... the playing characteristics are in constant state of flux due to subtle little changes. I think the answer to all of your questions is 'yes'.

That being said, those subtle changes can make a horn go to either side of the 'play' spectrum.

[Wyvern]

I personally think its the player getting accustomed to the new horn.

I think that probably explains most of it! ...

However, when a tuba leaves the factory, presumably it is relatively shinny inside (although not polished) - but after a while the brass will discolor and build up some deposits, however much the owner tries to keep it clean. That surely must have some effect on its sound (surely more than if lacquer, or silver plate is on the outside)?

[Ulli]

I think, the playing characteristics of _me_ are not so constantly like my tuba...
Ulli

[iiipopes]

I am an incessant tinkerer. So buying a new tuba would not have been the thing for me to do. With my old Besson, I can try things that aren't expensive, and not worry about the resale value of the horn (I know...being a 3 banger... "...Resale value? What resale value?!"). Plus, anything I do will probably make it play better, like eventually I finally got around to getting a big ding out of the knuckle of the primary port between the 1st and 2d valve casings. It didn't look that deep from the outside, but with the thickness of the brass, it had occluded @1/4 of the port. Probably the same condition as my coronary arteries. Live and learn!

[oedipoes]

mmm, there will be some 'ageing' of the material during time. This would mean, internall stress flowing away.
This will especially be the case in soldered connections.
Some welded connections in industry need to be vibrated for a certain period to allow stress go away.
Don't know if that's the thing that happens when running in a tuba.

The piston valves on my prestige euph needed some mechanical running in as described above.
The playing characteristic did not change in my opinion (played daily though).

Wim

[Matt G]

myth

I agree. Stresses that are in a tuba due to manufacturing tolerances won't get "vibrated away" with the weak (relatively speaking) mechanical energy produced by playing. I would guarantee that the amount of poor alignment would exist regardless of the number of playing hours. Handling the instrument would do more to remove stresses inside the horns structure than any amount of playing.

Here are things that happen during the "break in process" that can account for most changes:

-Slides are properly lubricated, this helps for creating a better seal.

-Valves are properly lubricated, same as above, but normally with an even larger playing impact. If anyone has played a tuba with worn out valves, and then lubed them with a heavy oil, you can notice some definite improvements in playing and intonation.

-Players get accustomed to the characteristics of the horn.

-Players get mouthpieces that better match the horn.

I have heard of many exercises to break in a horn. In the end, they all involve more face time on the "new" horn, and at the limits of the horn. What this really seems like with thoughtful analysis is that the player is actually breaking themselves in for the new horn.

[Rick Denney]

Maybe an analogy would be like two resonant circuits, one with a higher Q than the other.

That is a very good analogy, and one that I have used, though only EE's and radio amateurs seem to get it. But it's a function of design, construction, and condition; not age.

Anyway, he made the comment that he had spent several hours breaking in the horn, after he had received it. He suggested that his initial playing of the horn improved its playing characteristics.

I have had two periods in my life when I rode bicycles 200-400 miles each week. In the earlier of those two periods, the standard bicycle saddle was a slab of thick leather suspended between the ends of a pair of steel rails. There were all sorts of treatments performed by cyclists to help "break in" those saddles. Even though (unlike brass) leather does indeed get softer with exercise, my impression of those saddles was that it was my posterior that was broken in, not the saddle. During the second period, saddles used some form of expanded foam. The most comfortable saddles for me were the really hard ones, but only after about 1000 miles. Did the saddle change or was it the even softer blob of fat resting on it? That's an easy questions to answer.

As we play a new instrument, we get used to it. Shazzam! It plays better. Who knew?

Rick "Myth" Denney

[imperialbari]

Denis Wick recommended pouring sour milk through the bore of new trombones. I in contrast to that also cleaned the inside of the inner branches of the hand slide.

Dave Werden and also two more, elderly, members of this board have uttered, that piston valves don’t get really tight until the inside of the piston casings corrode to form a porous layer which gets soaked with oil.

Klaus

[Rick Denney]

Dave Werden and also two more, elderly, members of this board have uttered, that piston valves don’t get really tight until the inside of the piston casings corrode to form a porous layer which gets soaked with oil.

That's not exactly how I heard it. I think it was more a matter of smoothness than tightness. The theory was that the initial oxidation of the raw brass on the inside of the casing would be rough at the microscopic level. Continued use (breaking in) would polish off the roughness, and eventually a hard, smooth oxide layer would form. Cleaning the oxide off would require repeating that process.

Rick "who has never observed this first-hand, but then who has never bought a truly brand-new tuba" Denney

[Allen]

I don't know about this tuba running-in, but I can tell you that metronomes require running-in. Here's my experience:

Started taking lessons. Teacher said to get a metronome. I bought one. The next lesson, I complained to Teacher that even though I had bought a good metronome, the dang thing had a terrible time following my time. After a while, I was able to tell Teacher that clearly the metronome had done some breaking in, as it was now doing a much better job of following my timing.

Is this the sort of thing we are talking about?

Cheers,
Allen

P.S. I can tell you about tuners, too.