MUSIC ED VS. PERFORMANCE

[Carroll]

I am a High School Band, Middle School BAnd and Elementary Music teacher. I am assigned to four student teachers per year. I used to recommend that everyone get an Ed degree, and those that want to play just practice... a lot. In the past dozen years or so I have changed my tune I have seen kids who are "too good" to teach and just take Ed classes to have a fall back. I DO NOT want you in front of kids unless you REALLY want to be there. There are few Mr. Holland situations in real life. Most performers just become bitter when they have to teach while waiting for their big break. I would rather they wait tables, or work construction, or sell retail. Do not put yourself in front of a class and spread vitriol!

On the other hand... a very good friend of mine earned a bachelor's and master's degree in euphonium performance. He has been in an adjunct position at an elementary school for the past 10 years, getting substitute (1/2 teacher's) pay. He is now in the process of earning an Ed certification. He was not going to teach. Now he is a very good teacher. I think he would have come to this place earlier had he really looked inward and thought through his true musical interests. He never wanted to be a military musician and there ain't much else for a euphonium player. Perhaps he will open up that baseball card shop he talked about, someday.

[SinNawlins]

in my case I loved performing but got practical and got an engineering degree to bring home a good paycheck. There are lots of opportunities to perform along the way but unless you already have wealth, you have to think about making a living and building some wealth and benefits for your own old age, which is likely inevitable unless you die early. Nationwide, there are very few performance slots that pay enough to live on, with one exception.
The exception is a US military band career. There are lots of opportunities for a young person, and the lifestyle and pay and benefits are very good, if you like that lifestyle. There is education mone available if qualified. Lots and lots of performances and you are treated very well. Retirement is early and generous with plenty of time in life remaining for other opportunities. I never thought of that when your age or might have gone that way, but it can be a great option for people who want to perform. If you want to perform and have a chance at making a decent living, consider a US military band career. Just my two cents

[TonyTuba]

Do NOT get a mus ed degree unless you WANT to teach school bands. Mus ed degrees are not good fall back degrees. The job is so expansive that you need to seriously train and study it to even come close the having enough knowledge to do it well. There are too many bad music educators in the schools already. If you want to play, play. If you want a safety, double major in performance and business. If you can't handle a double major, you should just be a business major.

There has been a strange shift in music education. It used to be that musicians became band directors. Now, band nerds become band directors. Band directors are on the front line in the battle of the future of symphonic music. It would be helpful if more music educators loved music more, not just band, and were actually good at music.

In case you are thinking I am contradicting myself, hold on. Music education majors should be held to a higher standard of performance in college. If they can not play, they should not be allowed to earn the certificate. Very few places enforce a checks and balances for ed majors. A student needs to have the desire to be a good musician if they want to be a music teacher. It is a very important element.

[Arkietuba]

I am a performance major that switched from music ed. My decision wasn't easy as I do know I will have a much better chance at getting a job with an Ed degree as opposed to a performance degree.

I sat down with my professor last year (at the time, Dr. Ben Miles was here as a visiting professor) and he asked me what I wanted to do professionally. I knew I wanted to teach at some level, and gradually as the years went by I started to see myself as more of a college professor and not so much of a high school or middle school director. I thought I could do it, but the more I thought about it, the less I liked the idea. Dr. Miles told me, "You know when I was with (I think Marty Erickson) he said 'Ben, I just can't see you on that podium in front of a bunch of kids'...Matt, I can't see you doing that either". I told him that I really enjoyed the idea of being a college tuba professor and he told me that he has never used his Ed degree and that he could see me doing that if I worked hard enough.

I talked it over with some other professors here who I trust very much and who are very "pro music ed" and they all told me that if anyone could be a tuba performance major, it was me and they gave me their blessing. Then, my advisor (who had advised against it for a year) finally told me the same thing. So, I did it and I kinda "regret" it due to the economy as it is, but I can't see myself directing kids (other than in private lessons). Now, I've also thought about persuing a career in a military band as well if the job market isn't good at all.

Basically, my advice is start out as music ed since the classes are all the same music wise and shouldn't put you far behind if you do switch...then take some time and reflect and see if you really want to do education/performance. Also, consider how good you are.

[Arkietuba]

ew aob

Do NOT get a mus ed degree unless you WANT to teach school bands. Mus ed degrees are not good fall back degrees. The job is so expansive that you need to seriously train and study it to even come close the having enough knowledge to do it well. There are too many bad music educators in the schools already. If you want to play, play. If you want a safety, double major in performance and business. If you can't handle a double major, you should just be a business major.

There has been a strange shift in music education. It used to be that musicians became band directors. Now, band nerds become band directors. Band directors are on the front line in the battle of the future of symphonic music. It would be helpful if more music educators loved music more, not just band, and were actually good at music.

In case you are thinking I am contradicting myself, hold on. Music education majors should be held to a higher standard of performance in college. If they can not play, they should not be allowed to earn the certificate. Very few places enforce a checks and balances for ed majors. A student needs to have the desire to be a good musician if they want to be a music teacher. It is a very important element.

I find this to be 100% accurate, at least at my school. There are SOOOO many music ed majors who either, don't think they need to practice or know their instrument well since they are "only band directors" or they are in the bottom of their studios. This angers me because they are going to be the folks teaching future musicians/educators. They don't see the value of knowing your instrument inside and out and how that relates to being a good band director. Heck, I thought my band directors were so good at their instruments and that made me want to be at their level. We had a student teacher my senior year of high school, from my current university, and he wasn't that great. He knew the motions and the text book way of directing, but he didn't know about musicality or how to make music in general (this was also true when he picked up an instrument). Anyways, just my 2 cents (in addition to yours, Tony).

[pierso20]

Do NOT get a mus ed degree unless you WANT to teach school bands. Mus ed degrees are not good fall back degrees. The job is so expansive that you need to seriously train and study it to even come close the having enough knowledge to do it well. There are too many bad music educators in the schools already. If you want to play, play. If you want a safety, double major in performance and business. If you can't handle a double major, you should just be a business major.

There has been a strange shift in music education. It used to be that musicians became band directors. Now, band nerds become band directors. Band directors are on the front line in the battle of the future of symphonic music. It would be helpful if more music educators loved music more, not just band, and were actually good at music.

In case you are thinking I am contradicting myself, hold on. Music education majors should be held to a higher standard of performance in college. If they can not play, they should not be allowed to earn the certificate. Very few places enforce a checks and balances for ed majors. A student needs to have the desire to be a good musician if they want to be a music teacher. It is a very important element.

I find much of this to be offensive and inaccurate.

First of all, all musicians will be teachers. ALL. I think that a music ed degree, while one may not be a "band director" as you call it (though I prefer the term 'music teacher' or 'band teacher'), getting an ed degree will teach you how to be a good teacher. Not just band teacher, but a teacher in general. And that is a benefit since we all know professional musicians teach to some extent. (I do agree with you though that one should not teach in the schools if they don't want to.....but everyone would benefit from an ed degree to some extent.)

Secondly, I DO NOT think that being a band teacher means that the teacher is less of a musician than "performance" majors. I think that many people currently in the collegiate system knows of many examples which contradict this. I am acquainted with many education majors who are very musical and perform at a level equal to or greater than many performance majors. And at many schools, education majors ARE held to a standard just as high as performance majors. In order to be a successful teacher, you must be a successful musician. A good school will prepare music educators by making them into great musicians. (yes, this isn't always the case, but good schools don't always prepare performance majors into being great musicians either).

Lastly, I think your assertion that band nerds become band directors is complete hogwash. I do NOT for one second believe that a majority of band teachers only love band music or that they are not good musicians. I am sure there are examples of those who are "failures" but I am also willing to bet that there are numerous examples of failures in the performance realm. I consider myself and many of my teacher friends very good musicians. Are teacher symphony caliber? Maybe not. However, or all the pro. players quality teacher caliber? Not all of them.

I think it is also important to note that band teachers will likely NOT perform to the same level of a performance major. But to put it into perspective, a professional performer spend much of his/her time practicing and performing. A teacher spend it teaching. There is no way for a teacher to perform at the level of a pro. performer with this lopsided time allotment.

I take my musicians ship very seriously. Does it always show in my playing? No. Do I work hard to teach my students how to be musicians? Yes. Does that make me a nerd? Well, then I welcome the opportunity to be one.

[Chuck Jackson]

They said if you get a Mus. Ed. degree and are willing to move then you will be able to get a job, Las Vegas builds about 4 new schools a year because they are growing so fast.

I teach in Las Vegas. There is a hiring freeze. Whoever told you this fact is lying to you. We are in negative growth. The land of milk and honey that was the CCSD is in survival mode.

My only advice is this: No one on this board at the age of ascendancy in the tuba world will have a job playing the tuba full time outside of the military. If you must be a musician, get your Education Degree. If you can't stand the thought of teaching STAY THE HELL OUT OF THE PROFESSION BECAUSE YOU WILL GIVE THOSE OF US WHO DO LOVE IT A BAD REPUTATION BY ASSOCIATION.

Lest anyone thinks I am blowing smoke, I had a long and varied career as a tuba player. Bloke is right, learn every possible style and learn to get along with assholes. Then you have a chance. Focal Dystonia stopped mine, but now I realize that I am a much better teacher than I ever was a tuba player because I LOVE IT. I firmly believe FD was my wake up call to do what I am doing now.

Chuck

[Uncle Buck]

A point that has already been made but is worth repeating:

If you're looking for a fall-back career as a teacher, a degree in English or math education might be a much better choice than one in music education.

[lgb&dtuba]

My only advice is this: No one on this board at the age of ascendancy in the tuba world will have a job playing the tuba full time outside of the military.
Chuck

And not very many will even get that job. Do the math.

[TonyTuba]

I find much of this to be offensive and inaccurate.

First of all, all musicians will be teachers. ALL. I think that a music ed degree, while one may not be a "band director" as you call it (though I prefer the term 'music teacher' or 'band teacher'), getting an ed degree will teach you how to be a good teacher. Not just band teacher, but a teacher in general. And that is a benefit since we all know professional musicians teach to some extent. (I do agree with you though that one should not teach in the schools if they don't want to.....but everyone would benefit from an ed degree to some extent.)

Secondly, I DO NOT think that being a band teacher means that the teacher is less of a musician than "performance" majors. I think that many people currently in the collegiate system knows of many examples which contradict this. I am acquainted with many education majors who are very musical and perform at a level equal to or greater than many performance majors. And at many schools, education majors ARE held to a standard just as high as performance majors. In order to be a successful teacher, you must be a successful musician. A good school will prepare music educators by making them into great musicians. (yes, this isn't always the case, but good schools don't always prepare performance majors into being great musicians either).

Lastly, I think your assertion that band nerds become band directors is complete hogwash. I do NOT for one second believe that a majority of band teachers only love band music or that they are not good musicians. I am sure there are examples of those who are "failures" but I am also willing to bet that there are numerous examples of failures in the performance realm. I consider myself and many of my teacher friends very good musicians. Are teacher symphony caliber? Maybe not. However, or all the pro. players quality teacher caliber? Not all of them.

I think it is also important to note that band teachers will likely NOT perform to the same level of a performance major. But to put it into perspective, a professional performer spend much of his/her time practicing and performing. A teacher spend it teaching. There is no way for a teacher to perform at the level of a pro. performer with this lopsided time allotment.

I take my musicians ship very seriously. Does it always show in my playing? No. Do I work hard to teach my students how to be musicians? Yes. Does that make me a nerd? Well, then I welcome the opportunity to be one.

True, pretty much all musicians have some sort of teaching in them. If you think a college will teach you how to be a GOOD Teacher, you are high. Colleges give you information and the opportunity to gain knowledge on the subject matter, but they do not teach you how to teach. Either you have that or you don't.

Secondly, I simply do not agree with you that ed majors are held to the same standard. More important than that, they, more often than not, don't hold themselves to the high standard. I do not think it is an institutions job to make a player great, or a student a great teacher, that lies on the student. However, if our band directors were better musicians, they would be better band directors.

I stand by my assertion about band geeks wanting to stay in band forever. You do not have to agree, but it is there.

Lastly, I guess I wasn't talking about you, then. You can choose to be offended if you like, I don't mind. Maybe it was meant to be a little offensive. I don't know. But I can assure you, it is accurate, even if it doesn't apply to you, personally.

[pierso20]

True, pretty much all musicians have some sort of teaching in them. If you think a college will teach you how to be a GOOD Teacher, you are high. Colleges give you information and the opportunity to gain knowledge on the subject matter, but they do not teach you how to teach. Either you have that or you don't.

Secondly, I simply do not agree with you that ed majors are held to the same standard. More important than that, they, more often than not, don't hold themselves to the high standard. I do not think it is an institutions job to make a player great, or a student a great teacher, that lies on the student. However, if our band directors were better musicians, they would be better band directors.

I stand by my assertion about band geeks wanting to stay in band forever. You do not have to agree, but it is there.

Lastly, I guess I wasn't talking about you, then. You can choose to be offended if you like, I don't mind. Maybe it was meant to be a little offensive. I don't know. But I can assure you, it is accurate, even if it doesn't apply to you, personally.

I think the biggest problem with you assertion (of which you are not alone in making) is that it is creating a blanket assumption that simply may not be true.

Schools cannot teach you have to have a different personality as a teacher and schooling alone does not make you a good teacher. I agree on that point. However, being taught how to be a teacher is about being taught the skills required to be successful as a teacher. Yes, some people just naturally "have" that personality or teaching just clicks, but without an education of how to hone those skills, someone will likely not be as successful as a teacher. This is similar to the "need" for a performance degree. Technically, noone needs a performance degree. One could just study with a great teacher and audition/play in local ensembles and work their way up the ladder. Yet going to school provides a much more solid foundation.

I am not going to disagree either that there is a different standard for music education majors than for "performance" majors. But I don't think it is that the standard for a music ed. student is low but maybe that the standard for a performance major is high. A performance major is expected to be of the highest quality musician and "performer" to make it.(also, I do not think that if an ed major isn't extremely wonderful on their instrument that they are not a good musician.) I also agree that there is often a poor mentality among music ed majors about their musicianship, but I think it is in poor taste to blanket label music ed students as not holding themselves to a high standard. I am sure there are as many music ed. students who work hard as performance majors who work hard. There are also many band teachers who are very quality musicians, again it not being fair to make a blanket statement.

So, while I see your points, I feel as if they are based on assumptions, stereotypes, and a mixture of personal and biased experiences. It is in poor taste to say most music ed students don't hold themselves to a high standard just as it would be poor taste to say that a nurse doesn't have as high of a standard as an MD.

I enjoy these types of conversations though.....no hard feelings or anything.

[ken k]

"Excellent/productive music educators/band directors take offense at the Music Education "fall-back" concept." (thank you bloke)

I cannot in good conscience nor will I ever ever recommend someone to become a teacher. it is something you have to want to do. (a calling if you will) In fact I urge most students not to go into music ed. I figure if they still do it, then they must have really wanted to do it. The "Fall back" line of thought just propogates the idea "if I can't do, I can teach" and "teaching is a such an easy gig" and "those teachers make too much money", etc.... don't get me started.

Also the idea that "Oh if I can't get a playing gig I will just teach" is not much of a life long goal and you need to reevaluate your priorities. If you go into your performance career with that attitude you may as well just write it off now. Because there will be 100 others out there who will not compromise their performance goal.

I think stories like Bill T. (who reluctantly got into teaching and ended up enjoyed it for 30 years! Way to go Bill!) are the exception to the rule. Most people get into teaching and find out there is so much nonteaching crap that one must deal with (parents, admin, in-service days, paper work, angry tax payers whose taxes are too high, etc.) they get frustrated and get out.

While this post may make it sound like I am an old grumpy burned out teacher and do not enjoy teaching, that is not the case. I wake up every morning thankful for my career and enjoy going to work, even though there are negatives, but then there are negatives with any job. (just ask the AIG employees who finally got their contracted pay). I never had the desire to spend hours in the practice room and I knew that from the start but I also loved band and chorus and making music so much that i wanted to share that experience with kids, which is why I went into music ed. The plus is I get to perform on the side and luckily now after many years at a fairly high level.

Perhaps you could sit down with as many music teachers as you can find (and not just your HS BD but other teachers at other schools and levels) and ask them some questions about why they picked their career and what their thoughts are on the profession, etc. This may help you make your decision.

ken k

[windshieldbug]

OP: Talk, talk, talk with people who have chosen both sides of the question. See what the pluses and minuses are for both paths, and if you have the drive to do either.

I took an Ed. degree, but by the time I did my student teaching, knew that the extra BS (band being an aux to the football team, band candy sales just to exist, the band trip, etc. combined with the non-teaching part of being a teacher just wasn't for me. I loved teaching music too much.

Then see about performing. The very uncertain life of a free-lancer. How hard it is to get a full-time job. How often they even come up. Are you willing to eat dirt until you can play like Ms. Jantsch, which is where the bar now stands. Can you do the contractor/BS-thing, promote yourself AND be able to back it up?

I don't mean to sound negative, but I agree with Wade, if you don't HAVE to do this, strongly consider something to fall forward on.

Whatever the outcome, good luck!

[Art Hovey]

You cannot possibly know if you want to teach until you have tried it for a few years. You cannot possibly know if you can make a living as a performer until you have landed a full-time performance gig and held onto it for a few years, which is about as likely to happen as getting yourself elected to the U.S. senate. The important thing is to keep options open. If you decide to try teaching, then get certified in more than one area. When the budget ax cuts your music program, you can teach photography, or computer "science", or whatever.

I know a guy who ran the instrumental music program at a nice suburban school for many years while taking courses in law. Eventually he earned his law degree, passed the bar exam, and got a day gig with a law firm. At that point he began taking playing gigs, which he had never done before, and found out that he hated law and loved teaching and playing. Now he runs the school's "talented and gifted" program, which always brings a chuckle to folks who knew him way back when.

For me, teaching high school physics was a great way to pay the bills. It was a heck of a lot easier than music ed, my program was always respected, and nobody ever told me how to do my job. I retired after 35 good years, and now have more gigs on tuba and bass than I ever dreamed I would, and all the tuba students that I can handle.

[Chen]

Whatever you decide, make sure to take care of your GPA.

If I did that I'd be in a better law school now.