Verdi Aida and Rigoletto

[Wyvern]

I have both Verdi Aida and Rigoletto operas coming up in the next couple of months and wonder if anyone has the part of either they could send me to get a heads up on what the tuba/cimbasso part is like before the day?

Also, I would appreciate recommendations for recordings to listen.

Thanks!
Jonathan

PS I am planning on playing using my F tuba (the nearest in tone to a cimbasso I have)

[UDELBR]

C'mon, Jonathan: you know you want a cimbasso.

[Pozzie]

I too have Rigoletto coming up in the next month... Can anyone send me the tuba (or cimbasso) part, please?

[Wyvern]

C'mon, Jonathan: you know you want a cimbasso.

If someone is giving one away!

I have now got the Aida part*, so am just still searching for Rigoletto.

Plus, any recommended recordings, anyone?

*And pleased I have too - does not look one to sight read!

[jeopardymaster]

As I recall, Rigoletto has some really nasty stuff in it - particularly in Act III.

[Jay Bertolet]

Both parts have distinct challenges to them, the Rigoletto more so in my opinion. Both work absolutely wonderfully on a cimbasso. Both complete parts are also currently available from the publisher Kalmus as well. Enjoy!

Regards,
Jay Bertolet

[Tubaguyjoe]

I hope your tuba has a good High D. I just finished Aida with the Stuttgart opera. It has a few really nice parts actually. I would not recommend sight-reading it though. It does sound much better on a cimbasso though...

[gionvil]

Jonathan,
Did you have any indication from your conductor on what he wants for the parts? Some do ask expressly and necessarily for the cimbasso...
Gion

[Wyvern]

Did you have any indication from your conductor on what he wants for the parts? Some do ask expressly and necessarily for the cimbasso...

They have indicated they will be satisfied with tuba

[gionvil]

good, in fact the dispute among the experts about the instrument that was meant to be used for the 4th and lower part of the trombones in Verdi's literature is still open, and is difficult to know what the great composer's had in mind for it. In Italy with the name "Cimbasso" have been designated for years many different instruments (ophicleide with keys or valves, pelittone, bombardone, bass trombone "Verdi"...) and only in 1881 Verdi wrote on the "Gazzetta Musicale di Milano" that in the organic of the operas were necessary 4 trombones, the 4th being a "trombone basso a macchina" which was probably the instrument more close to the modern cimbasso. In Italy a light, narrow bodied Bb tuba has been used for those parts for decades in the first half of the 20th century.

[kontrabass]

I, as well, have an Aida and Rigoletto coming up. Can someone send me a cimbasso please?

[imperialbari]

I eyed through the Aida cimbasso part (which I can, when it is on the computer screen). I may have missed details, but what I saw very much appeared to be written for a 3-valve bass trombone in F. B natural below the staff to E natural above the staff. I have seen such an instrument in an Italian movie some 20 years ago.

At one point of time I had the electronic version (that is .pdf) of the full score of the triumphal march from Aida. There Verdi displayed a way of setting the 3 trombones and the cimbasso, which I have seen nowhere else. but for maybe in 4 part organ writing, where the 8-foot bass may be doubled by a 4-foot stop.

The cimbasso plays the bass note. The 1st trombone fills the tenor function. Very oddly, at least to me, the 2nd trombone doubles the cimbasso in the octave. The 3rd trombone plays a harmony note between the cimbasso and the 2nd trombone (not always the fifth).

The opening of Nabucco also is set for 3 trombones and cimbasso. Mostly in sort of 4-part chorale harmony, but then the 3rd trombone and the cimbasso play in octaves in the last cadential moves. Very odd.

The cimbasso parts I have seen so far all would be playable on modern 2-valve Bb bass slide trombones.

Klaus

[Wyvern]

Well, I played Aida yesterday. A good part with surprisingly short rests in the first 2 Acts. In the end I took my 2040/5 Eb with PT-65 mouthpiece which seemed to work well in that I got some positive comments.

What I had not realised is that in addition to the orchestral cimbasso part, there are two 'real' tuba parts in Act 2 for the 'Stage Band' which being a concert performance, I was handed to play. They appeared mainly in octaves, so I opted for the lower of the two, switching back and forth with the cimbasso part. I thought the stage part the most fun of the lot with the tuba having the big tune.

Now only three weeks to Rigoletto for which I have still not located any part, so will be 100% sight reading. I think the Eb will be going again - my F reading is not yet fluent enough to risk unseen. In any case, if there is a stage tuba part again, the rounder tone of the Eb is better

[J.c. Sherman]

Here are two good summaries of the two works' cimbasso parts. Interesting information from Edward Solomon:

*Rigoletto* (première at La Fenice, Venice, 11 March 1851): 3 trombones, 1 cimbasso (lowest note C). Possibly the most confused of all the Verdi low brass parts, the lowest part in this opera was indicated as /cimbasso/ by the composer, /serpan/ by the publisher (Ricordi) and /bombardone/ by the theatre management.

*Aïda* (première at Opera House, Cairo, 24 December 1871; La Scala, Milan, 8 February 1872): 3 trombones, 1 cimbasso (lowest note B flat). Ricordi indicated in a letter to Verdi dated 23 May 1871 that a /bombardone/ would be used for the La Scala première, which prompted Verdi's well-known and strongly worded objection to that 'devilish tuba (/bombardone/'. The libretto for the Cairo première is reported to indicate that an ophicleide was used.

All said, I used Cimbasso for Rigolletto, and haven't played Aida yet. But Meucci's thesis on the cimbasso and tuba in Italian literature is a must-read for every tubist involved in opera work. It certainly doesn't mandate Contrabass bone/Modern Cimbasso - but it helps you approach each work with the timbre and balance of the original in mind. Also remember, that the 3-valve Bombardon, Ophicleide, and keyed ophicleide cannot reach the Low Bb of Rigoletto.

The Bombardon parts in those operas are for a very skinny F tuba, but Eb played tastefully should be very nice.

J.c.S.

[Wyvern]

Played Rigoletto today. What a great opera and fun cimbasso part! I think I enjoyed even more than Aida.

Interesting we tend to think Wagner's operas to be 'brassy', but my perception is that there is even more to play in Verdi - with the cimbasso part appearing bigger than the trombones, with extra solo passages.

Another thing that struck me was how sections of the music sound very much like in the style of 19th century British brass band music, although I guess this is because the latter was influenced by Verdi's opera?

My 2040/5 Eb (with PT-65 mouthpiece) seemed to work just great! I personally felt nothing in the music was lost by playing on tuba instead of cimbasso, particularly as I seemed to be playing with the cellos/basses quite as much as the trombones

[MikeMason]

i did aida a few weeks back on my thor.Glad i had a large cc.couldn't imagine doing it on something smaller,especially in a few of the "grander"spots.the cimbasso part is definitely written for something with valves.MUCH more technical than the bone or even horn parts.Good fun..

[tuba kitchen]

we are doing a verdi program this week with mostly rigoletto, nabucco and force of destiny and we ain't got no cimbassos in our orcheatra! the solution after some trail and error from previous verdi puccini programs: miraphone 184