Big BBb 4v York

[The Big Ben]

Here's a big BBb York with 4v toploader. Seller gives a serial number and says it's from 1917. It's engraved "U.S.N." as well as the York engraving so, if that tickles yer innards, that might be a plus. Having a Navy horn would give it a sense of history.

It's not beat to crap but I bet it would need a full overhaul to make a player happy. The "cut to CC' idea really doesn't fly with the quality of CC horns these days. This one does have the 4v so a "leave it alone and rebuild what's already there" would seem to be in order.

It hasn't gone stupid expensive yet but there are a few days so who knows?

Anyhow, it looks interesting so, here ya go:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0387247173" target="_blank" target="_blank

[Donn]

This one does have the 4v so a "leave it alone and rebuild what's already there" would seem to be in order.

It may have 4 valves, but the 4 valves would be on the front, not top. I wouldn't be so surprised to see this show up at some tuba chop shop's doorstep with instructions to reverse to front valves, if it has the potential of some of the other old big tubas, e.g., Holton 345.

While that seems to me like a modification whose expense would be far out of proportion to its benefits, maybe the ergonomics of a critter like this would be more of an issue than with my 3v Eb. And very likely the current valves are worn a little thin anyway, and the leadpipe could have issues.

The seller is legit, kind of a junk dealer but not a scammer in my experience.

[Donn]

...but (really) isn't this tuba (bore/body/etc.) except for the extra couple of inches of bell flare about the same size as the Conn 2J-4J-5J-etc.J...??

No, I don't think so? I'm looking at it side by side with Uncle Buck's 2J, and to my untutored eye, it's significantly larger. The front picture of the 2J and back picture of the York are similar perspectives and the actual bell diameter is about the same, so I rotated it 90 and shrank by 16/19 - without verifying that the 2J actually has a 16 inch bell. If that's right, the York is only a little shorter than the 2J, and a lot fatter.

[The Big Ben]

This one does have the 4v so a "leave it alone and rebuild what's already there" would seem to be in order.

It may have 4 valves, but the 4 valves would be on the front, not top. I wouldn't be so surprised to see this show up at some tuba chop shop's doorstep with instructions to reverse to front valves, if it has the potential of some of the other old big tubas, e.g., Holton 345.

While that seems to me like a modification whose expense would be far out of proportion to its benefits, maybe the ergonomics of a critter like this would be more of an issue than with my 3v Eb. And very likely the current valves are worn a little thin anyway, and the leadpipe could have issues.

You never know what people might be willing to pay to have done. The number of people who could competently make mods like that is pretty low. Lots of planning and calculation and fabrication to turn a horn inside out and have it look and sound right. And at what price?

The number of people who could take it apart and rebuild it "as is" is much higher. Send the valves and casings out if they don't have the skills in house and careful, competent restoration of the rest and you would have it. Probably a lot of money but might be worth it when all is said and done...

If a guy wants something antique that may/may not be better than something modern that could be bought ready to go out of stock but has a higher 'cool factor', it might be fun...

[windshieldbug]

FWIW, I figure it to be 1918.

[Donn]

If a guy wants something antique that may/may not be better than something modern that could be bought ready to go out of stock but has a higher 'cool factor', it might be fun...

That's the problem, right there. If you're the kind of person who's out for the cool factor, then those top valves are going to gnaw at you. You might as well play in a British brass band, if you're stuck with top valves.

[eupher61]

You might as well play in a British brass band, if you're stuck with top valves.

tell that to Howard Johnson

[Bandmaster]

Let's see...

Before:


and this could be the After:


These are largish 4/4 tubas and I would say they are a little bigger than the Conn 2J-4J-5J-etc.

[J.c. Sherman]

These are basically the size and profile of a Conn 56J/King 2341.

J.c.S.

[Donn]

I went back and looked...

Went back ... to 1918? Sometime when you're back there, if it would not be inconvenient, you might see if you could get a decent recording of Kid Ory et al.

[eupher61]

um...the point wasn't really that vague, but not worth much trouble either. The Kid Ory seems to be a non-sequiterial comment on the era of 1918, which is the date of the tuba in question. When bloke wrote "I went back" , well....

I admit to thinking the same thing upon reading. But I didn't post it. I'm learning.

[Donn]

um...the point wasn't really that vague, but not worth much trouble either. The Kid Ory seems to be a non-sequiterial comment on the era of 1918, which is the date of the tuba in question. When bloke wrote "I went back" , well....

I admit to thinking the same thing upon reading. But I didn't post it. I'm learning.

I am your student.

[tbn.al]

Some folks wonder what bore an instrument is. Others just drag out one from their attic and measure it. It's the same question, just a different perspective on getting the answer.

[The Big Ben]

Is "York" the magic word?

This horn is up to $870 or so with a day and a half to go....

Stupid expensive? I guess that would depend on your point of view, I suppose...

[Lew]

Some folks wonder what bore an instrument is. Others just drag out one from their attic and measure it. It's the same question, just a different perspective on getting the answer.

Isn't the bore usually the one behind the instrument?

[Lew]

Is "York" the magic word?

This horn is up to $870 or so with a day and a half to go....

Stupid expensive? I guess that would depend on your point of view, I suppose...

Less than a thousand bucks for a 4 valve BBb tuba that although a little rough is supposedly playable doesn't seem that out of line to me. Most people today wouldn't want the top action valves, but if overhauled this would be a very nice playing horn.

[The Big Ben]

Is "York" the magic word?

This horn is up to $870 or so with a day and a half to go....

Stupid expensive? I guess that would depend on your point of view, I suppose...

Less than a thousand bucks for a 4 valve BBb tuba that although a little rough is supposedly playable doesn't seem that out of line to me. Most people today wouldn't want the top action valves, but if overhauled this would be a very nice playing horn.

I guess it depends on how much it needs to really be playable. With an instrument like a vintage tuba, $1K of repairs rolls up pretty fast. It's obvious that it needs mouthpipe work or replacement and there are a few nasty dents that might hinder play. Plus- what about the valves? $2k playable in your lap?

Personally, I like upright valves. I know that some see the fact that the bell will point the opposite direction as a frontloader horn a bad thing but I don't. Unless, of course, you are playing in a British BB where the frontloader guys would be the weirdos.

As a question to someone who knows: It looks pretty straight forward to hone the valve casings on a frontloader horn- just put the hone in from the front (or back). What is done on a toploader horn? Does the top bow need to come off in order to hone the valve casings?

Jeff "Wanting to know" Benedict

[Art Hovey]

The York under discussion is the same model that I started with, but in slightly better condition. The body and bell are virtually identical to the King 2341, but the valve set is a pea-shooter with too many tight turns. I sold the valve set from mine to someone who wanted to put 4 onto an Eb tuba, and I put a new Mirafone 1271 front-valve set onto my York body. (I re-routed the 4th valve tubing.) Then I discovered that I had the carcass of an old York Eb in my attic with exactly the same bell, but in better condition. So I swapped the bell:

The tuba plays a lot like the King 2341, but better. The Mirafone valve section is dual-bore and slightly larger than the King, which opens up the low register.

[J.c. Sherman]

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Cramming two posts into one...

Another friend of mine owns the same 4/4 York BBb frame cut to CC, and has a 52J 4+1 valveset (.687"/.750") mounted on it...He keeps his unbolted 52J body (nearly pristeen) in the closet.

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I did exactly the same thing. Had a three-valve York exactly like this and then (stupidly) cut it to CC and added the guts of a 52J Conn and let the original body rest in the basement. It wasn't stupid because of how it played - which was awesome, and sounded better - but because eventually were going to run out of good Yorks in their original configuration. The one I had, BTW, was a .687 bore, and I did save the valve section, along with a vintage Conn Monster Eb valve set. The Conn Eb is becoming a 5v FA, but being constructed in a way that alows it to be put back in the original configuration. Less guilt that way

J.c.S. (who thinks someone's gonna have a hell of a horn at the end of this auction!)

[The Big Ben]

Sold!

$897.00

Anyone here get it?