E Flat tuba and F Tubas

[Plugo]

for those that made the choice to play either an F tuba or E Flat . what was the determining factor to choose one over the other?

is it the sound ? your teacher recomendation? or the type of playing you do?

i play CC tuba but i am considering an F or E flat to complement my contrass playing. i play on Rudolf meinl tuba. so i need advice.

[windshieldbug]

The choice was the best sound I could afford for the application I needed.

When I was right out of school, my choice was a 100-year-old Distin Eb. This worked just fine for bass tuba parts in my orchestras.

I then went through a succession of other horns, and what I ended up with was having a 184 CC Miraphone, a 6/4 45 F Meinl, and several sized (3/4 - 5/4) Eb horns in addition to my main Orchestral CC.

I still think that the horn chooses you rather than you choose the horn.

[Rick Denney]

For me, the choice at the time was limited. I preferred an instrument with a left-facing bell (I'm nearly blind in my left eye) and that eliminated the top-action Bessons. There were no front-action Bessons in that day, and the only front-action Eb tubas that I saw were old American instruments with three valves and, well, unusual intonation challenges. Also, a rotary F came my way for the right price, so I bought it to learn on. As a hobbyist, I have limited enough time to practice, and learning a third set of fingerings wasn't practical, so I stuck with F. I have no regrets--there are great Eb choices these days, but still a wider selection of F tubas.

A professional or pro-wannabe can't use limited willingness to learn new fingerings as an excuse, however.

Rick "who bought his first F in 1989" Denney

[Wyvern]

In deciding consider what sort of music to you intend to use it, what other tubas do you have to use (if any), what is the local culture and will your choice be acceptable to your teacher, conductor, of whoever.

An Eb is more adaptable with generally better low register than an F, but that tone difference in pitch makes the F sing easier in the upper register for solos and high orchestral repertoire. If you already have a 4/4 CC then an F may compliment better, but if you want an all purpose tuba, or companion for a 6/4 then an Eb may serve you better.

It is essentially your choice! Do not let learning new fingerings too much decide choice, as my experience is when there is the will, they can be learnt pretty quickly. I only had a CC and an F for one month before I first used them in important concerts

[skeath]

I have played F tuba off-and-on since 1971. At that time, F was sexy and exotic, and marked you as a real "orchestral" player, while Eb was largely thought of as a band instrument. People like John Fletcher helped bring the Eb into a better light, and to the increased popularity it enjoys today.

While the F has its strengths, and will always be popular, I can see a lot of advantages to the versatility of the Eb, especially in solo playing. For the last 5 years, I have used an F as my only tuba, a situation in which a good Eb would have served me better.

If I were making the choice today that the OP has posed, I would be much more disposed to choose an Eb than I was 35 years ago. Again, as other posters have noted, that would depend on if it was to be used more as an all-around recital instrument, or for playing the Berlioz Requiem.

[Mark E. Chachich]

Simply put, money was my main factor for purchasing an E flat tuba. Back in the 1970's there was not a lot of interest in the old American E flat tubas (York, Holton, Conn, etc...) so they were not too expensive (unlike the F tubas). I thought that I would use this tuba until I had the need (and the cash) for an F tuba. I was able to get a nice old York Monster E flat with four valves and never found the need to spend the money on an F. Also, this tuba was what I wanted in bass tuba.

best,
Mark

[J.c. Sherman]

For me, the Eb was my first Tuba purchase. I was at a TUBA event, and went to the display area. I tried everything, and was dreaming of owning most of them. But there was one lonely Boosey Eb, used, sitting among the exhibits...

And I fell in love. Coming from the BBb school, it was sooooo easy to play! And I could try it out by thinking Trumpet in treble clef.

My teacher, Ron Munson, was supportive of Eb tubas at the time, as was Eugene Dowling, who was helping to sell it. So it's been my baby - and my benchmark - ever since.

I learned F only a few years later, but I use it for entirely different reasons, and it comes down to sound and ease of making that sound.

But I'm as pro-bass-tuba as you can get, but I will always raise a strong thumbs-up for Eb!

J.c.S.

[Donn]

But I'm as pro-bass-tuba as you can get, but I will always raise a strong thumbs-up for Eb!

So, are you saying that there's a big difference, in principle, between Eb and F tubas, or have we been talking about characteristic Eb and F tubas, where there would also be a few exceptions to the rule?

For example, let's say one of us has a Cerveny 641 rotary Eb, and the other has a Willson 3200 F -- which one has the Eb tuba?

[eupher61]

I play F for most things, except jazz and Civil War, although I do use the F for some jazz things, depending on a lot of different factors, including how I feel. Otherwise I have a small BBb (Weril 680).

When I bought the F, I had a CC Piggy, and loved both. After a few years, it was obvious to me that I was playing the F a lot more, and it really felt a lot more comfortable to play in every situation. It's been 20 years now of mostly F, although I had a BBb souzie, a BBb Conn, and an Eb Conn, all have gone to others. I do have an F helicon that I bought merely to have a helicon, the fact that it's F is coincidental; it's fun to play, though, which is another plus.

I rarely play with a big orchestra, although I'm playing with a suburban community orchestra. The F is MORE than enough. I don't feel obligated to worry about not playing the "right" tuba on any piece, with a change of mouthpiece the color of the tuba changes a lot. I go to a Schilke Helleberg II for bigger sound, it's pretty sweet but not nearly as comfortable as my old school PT 9.

[tubashaman2]

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[tubashaman2]

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[Tuba Guy]

It is really interesting how I ended up on Eb...I went to my repairman to pick up my CC after smething was fixed (don't even remember what), and asked him if he happend to have any F tubas around for not too much money. He said he did, I tried it out, and for the price, liked it well enough to get it. He was going to fix it up, then (through a few people) deliver it to me. Well, the day before it was supposed to come, he called me and said "um, I don't quite know how this happened, but it's actually an Eb and not an F. Do you still want it?" It was a good enough horn and he was willing to knock a few hundred more dollars off the price, so I said sure. Got it, nailed some solos and orchestral stuff on it, and really got the hang of playing Eb. Then I saw a 1908 York 4v on Dillon's website, fell in love, and now that's my main bass tuba. Coincidentally, it's got the exact same dimensions as my CB50...
I guess I got into Eb playing because I thought I was getting an F

[Dean E]

for those that made the choice to play either an F tuba or E Flat . what was the determining factor to choose one over the other? . . .

I play F, as well as C, Bb, and Eb. I do not think of myself as having chosen one over another. I play them all, at an amateur level.

When I bought a horn and resumed playing a few years back, the best deal on the auction site was a 3-valve York monster Eb, which makes a wonderful, big sound.

My Eb horns all have three valves, and do not have gross playability quirks (such as the low C on some Fs). School and volunteer bands are still getting rid of any Eb horns they have at near salvage prices, so the supply is fairly good and prices are fairly low.

Eb evidently has advantages in jazz and Dixie improvisations, according to what I see being played and some posts here, but I could not explain why. I assume it has to do with common chord progressions.

F and C work better for pieces written for strings, from my limited experience playing with a community and volunteer orchestras. However, F does not project the oomph needed in many symphonic pieces, where a large C is needed.

[Tuba Guy]

Interesting! But how did you not realize it was an Eb when you played it (what kind of horn is it?)?

I seem to remember Dillon's having a few different York Monster Eb's over the last year or so; is yours the front action one? Was one of them front action?

There's no name on it...it's a german style 4v rotary with a major german sound to it (sounds like the last few miraphones I've played).
And...we really didn't compare it with anything that could tell pitch (piano, tuner, etc). It had a pretty good scale in the intonation, which was good enough for me. My teacher also tried it before I told him it was an Eb, and (he does F for his bass tuba) he couldn't tell that it was in Eb until I told him.
Doesn't help that I have terrible aural perception skills...
Mine is a top action...they had it listed in about December '08. I can try to find a picture if you want...

[tubashaman2]

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[jeopardymaster]

Seeing that Willson post got me thinking - I sure heard a lot of good early WOM on their Eb, but not so much lately. Have the newer Miraphones taken it off the "sexy" list?

I've never played the Willson, but trying both the NorStar and the StarLite got me feeling a bit "horny," though not to the point of regretting marrying my 983.

[DonnieMac]

When the band's music (your part) in boring, uninteresting or just simply dumb, haul out either your EEb of F tuba and make the best of it. EEb goes smoothly in most band music, the fingerings won't break you. For further challenge pull out your F tuba where in band music the fingerings can get pretty weird. This will benefit your low register chops. For orchestra parts where bunches of sharps (#####) pop up to confuse you, the F tuba is usually better than the EEb and more traditional. When later you return to your contra bass horn you will feel "delivered."

[eupher61]

"there is no such thing as a more difficult key, only less familiar".

--a former teacher from whom I got that, and almost nothing else.

[Amilcare]

"there is no such thing as a more difficult key, only less familiar".

--a former teacher from whom I got that, and almost nothing else.

Actually, you may have not been listening very well;-)

I have a Willson EEb (It's really a BIG Eb). It weighs a ton, but has more weight in its sound than any other Eb. Its tununing seems too sharp overall, but it settles down after 6 months. Sadly, it's rarely imported to the US, and costs a ton. I got a deal on mine as it had been used as a demo.

[J.c. Sherman]

But I'm as pro-bass-tuba as you can get, but I will always raise a strong thumbs-up for Eb!

So, are you saying that there's a big difference, in principle, between Eb and F tubas, or have we been talking about characteristic Eb and F tubas, where there would also be a few exceptions to the rule?

For example, let's say one of us has a Cerveny 641 rotary Eb, and the other has a Willson 3200 F -- which one has the Eb tuba?

Interesting question. I'd say your first statement is close to right. My Eb is a "typical" as you can get, save for the last few years with the new Miraphones coming in. And when you look at "typical" Fs, they are a different timbre, usually.

I'll admit that for transposing treble clef, I use Eb on Eb works, and F on F works for ease. And when reading concert pitch treble clef, I prefer F in general. I tend to play Eb for my Arban work, and Brass Band work (and BBb for the lower part). So there are occasions where there is an "ease of use issue", I suppose.

But for Bass Clef, it's all about sound. I use my Eb for much the same work as most people use their 4/4 CC. I have a 4/4 CC, but I am admittedly sparing in its use... Oddly, bell direction is one of the chief reasons to pick one over the other. Also, conductors do often hear with their eyes, so I'll play the CC for some occasions when I think I may have an "it's a band tuba" issue.

Your mileage may vary... start jumping on me

J.c.

P.S. - I like the quote about key signatures - classic! And true!