3/4 tuba with .827 bore?

[skeath]

While the terms 3/4, 4/4, 5/4, etc. usually reflect the physical size of an instrument, there is also usually a correlation between the physical size and the bore. I generally think of a 3/4 tuba as being a physically small instrument (with probably a small bore), but I have recently seen references to a 3/4 tuba with an .827 bore (in this case, a Cerveny "Piggy"). Should one infer from this that it "plays like a little tuba", or simply "looks like a little tuba and plays big"?

Your thoughts appreciated.

[eupher61]

The Piggy is an anomaly in the world of tuba size naming.

The numbers /4 have little basis in reality, actually, but they are usually relative. Rudy Meinl tubas are, IMO, classified a size too small (ie, the 3/4 Rudy is more of a 4/4 horn, more comparable to the 186, and the 5/4 is maybe more comparable to a HB-50 type.)

The Piggy is really a definite 4/4 horn, but because it's wrapped so tightly, it holds like a 3/4. It's a big horn in a small package.

[The Big Ben]

The Piggy is an anomaly in the world of tuba size naming.
<cut>
The Piggy is really a definite 4/4 horn, but because it's wrapped so tightly, it holds like a 3/4. It's a big horn in a small package.

There is also another Cerveny horn that is euphemistically called a "Piglet". It is smaller than a Piggy and in CC. People have said that it played pretty good. They are kind of a "European only" horn but Matt at Dillion's says he copuld get one in 45 to 60 days.

Here's where the TNFJ discussed the horn:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30013&hilit=Piglet" target="_blank" target="_blank

Jeff "Happier than a pig in sh... ah, er, slop" Benedict

[Toad Away]

There is also another Cerveny horn that is euphemistically called a "Piglet". It is smaller than a Piggy and in CC. People have said that it played pretty good. They are kind of a "European only" horn but Matt at Dillion's says he copuld get one in 45 to 60 days.

Here's where the TNFJ discussed the horn:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30013&hilit=Piglet" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Jeff

Matt was indeed correct in his description of this particular
tuba (excellent intonation, fun to play, etc.).
For me, this one plays like a Bell model MW, except this
one has a more open low end.
3/4 or 4/4 ___ I don't know.
At that price I feel very fortunate to have made the deal.
This model* Cerveny may be of interest to anyone on
a budget.

*CCB 483

[Toad Away]

Matt was indeed correct in his description of this particular
tuba (excellent intonation, fun to play, etc.).
For me, this one plays like a Bell model MW, except this
one has a more open low end.
3/4 or 4/4 ___ I don't know.
At that price I feel very fortunate to have made the deal.
This model* Cerveny may be of interest to anyone on
a budget.

*CCB 483

I tried like the Dickens to get a 483 BBb, or even a 481 BBb imported, but they just would not do it. The CC version, because so few of them sell, was able to be imported. The BBbs that they have sell out quickly, so they were not interested in a stripped down version (less profit) of their 683 or their 681, which is a very good horn. This is similiar to the student models that other makers offer--regular leadpipes and less nickel trim and slides.

Here is the "little sister" in question:

You're so right Dale.
Cerveny (oops, Amati Denak) needs to get its
act together.
That pic is the closest thing in their (Ceska) online
catalog to my tuba.
It does NOT show the larger bell and the longer 3rd
valve slide that mine has.
(I also had my leadpipe slightly raised and the lyre holder removed.

I tend to think that a 483 BBb could be a big seller.
Best,
Tim

[bort]

Damn, now you'll just have to take a trip to the Czech Republic to buy a 483 BBb and bring it home with you.

[skeath]

I just bought a Nirschl from an individual in Europe, had it shipped here. I had to pay 3% duty on the declared value. Usage is irrelevant. Probably the same if you bring it back, but it might be considered personal baggage in that case.

[Wyvern]

Regarding 3/4, 4/4, etc....

I'm confused on what these terms actually mean. Are they references to physical size, or an aspect of sonic property, or something else?

The most important aspect is the internal profile and how much it opens up through the tuba as that determines the sound. So that is what in theory the */4 means, as for example 6/4 Yorkphones are not usually physically as large as 5/4 Kaiser. But in actual fact the definition is as non-specific as S, M, L and XL on clothes. So you can take 3/4 = S; 4/4 = M; 5/4 = L; 6/4 = XL

It is no more than a rough guide to size as there are no defined standards and each manufacturer uses their own measurements.

[Wyvern]

I think you have the idea! What I find as a very good indication is to look at the bell throat. Where the bell joins the bottom bow. On a CC from my measurements a 4/4 circumference is about 15" (e.g. 188 and PT-20), a 5/4 about 17" (e.g. PT-6) and a 6/4 at least 19" (e.g. Neptune). These are only rough amounts with a tape measure of tubas which have passed through my hands and the height of the bell may also affect the throat size.

Having never handled a Cerveny Piggy I have no idea what its throat size might be? Anyone with one like to get a tape measure and check?

[Wyvern]

Jonathan, I had thought that the PT3 was relatively piggy-ish looking. Didn't the older ones look different? Is YOURS an older one?

My PT-3 is rather swat and Piggy looking I guess, but that does not mean its dimensions are similar. The PT-3 size I would put as a compact 4/4.

[skeath]

Yes, the sizes are subjective, and some manufacturers seem to understate them. I am told by a player of Rudy Meinl that those are labeled one size smaller than would seem to be accurate: a 3/4 Rudy is very comparable to a 4/4 Miraphone 186, a 4/4 is comparable to a Mirafone 1291, etc.

My Nirschl is labeled a 4/4, but anyone seeing it beside a 186 would judge it to be a 5/4. It is substantially larger than a 186, and much larger than the Piggy. It also has a heavier sound than the Piggy, even though the bore is smaller than the Piggy.