A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

[Funcoot]

Hey guys. Marching season isn't here quite yet, but band camp starts this July and the months are going by fast. I was wondering if anyone could recommend me a good mouthpiece to get. This'll be my first marching season ever, so I am pretty nervous, but psyched since I've been friends with the whole tuba section for a while.

Anyways, yeah I'm looking for a pretty good mouthpiece to use in a sousaphone. I don't really know if there is anything else to post (it'll be a BBb sousa... but does that really need to be said?). I have been looking at some Gidding's and Webster mouthpieces. They look pretty good... but then again I wouldn't know.

I just ask if you could use http://www.musiciansfriend.com" target="_blank" target="_blank as a reference, as that is where I will be buying it. Quick link to the tuba/sousaphone mouth pieces.
I need it below 200$ for sure, below 150$ ideally.

What kind of aspects should I look for in a sousaphone mouthpiece?

[Kevin Hendrick]

What kind of aspects should I look for in a sousaphone mouthpiece?

My list would be as follows:

(1) Low heat transfer -- you'll be playing on it in July (hot!) and probably also in November or December (cold!), so you'll want something that won't brand your face when it's hot or freeze to your face when it's cold.

(2) Light weight -- lighter is better, not only for the overall weight on your shoulder (endurance), but also from a polar-moment-of-inertia standpoint (quick turns and such). Also, *when* (not if) you bring the horn up a bit too fast and the mouthpiece smacks your face, the lighter it is, the quicker you recover.

(3) Resilient -- if you can drop it on concrete without damaging it, that cuts down on repairs and/or repeat purchases (and you *will* drop it at some point).

(4) Inexpensive -- 'nuff said!

And the requested link:

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/ ... 475+202689

(*way* under $200, as requested)

Hope it goes well for you!

[Funcoot]

I'm not so worried about temperature. I'm in PC, Florida. Our summer does get hot, but our winters are very mild.

Still open to suggestions guys.

[Rick Denney]

I'm not so worried about temperature. I'm in PC, Florida. Our summer does get hot, but our winters are very mild.

Still open to suggestions guys.

I grew up in Texas, and have burned my lips as often as freezing them.

Get a Kelly 18.

Rick "not thinking of much that can't be done with that mouthpiece in that situation" Denney

[tubadood5150]

This is kind of important....Is your band a competition band? Like Bands of America? If so, the kind of mouthpiece I would recommend is something that actually sounds really good as opposed to something that is made out of plastic and doesn't necessarily sound so good. For example, for football games, I would use a kelly mouthpiece because those are the times it gets really really cold. For Competitions, I would recommend a Conn Helleberg or something from the Perantucci line. It all really depends on your playing situation. At least that's how it was for me in Highschool.

[Art Hovey]

Get a Kelly 18 in your favorite color. Or get three for the price of one in an awful color from the Kelly website. Every student that I have switched to K18 has improved dramatically in the sound department. I have also found that it's easy to re-shape the rim and even enlarge the cup with sandpaper followed by finer sandpaper, followed by steel wool, followed by fine steel wool, followed by brisk rubbing with denim cloth.

[Rick Denney]

This is kind of important....Is your band a competition band? Like Bands of America? If so, the kind of mouthpiece I would recommend is something that actually sounds really good as opposed to something that is made out of plastic and doesn't necessarily sound so good. For example, for football games, I would use a kelly mouthpiece because those are the times it gets really really cold. For Competitions, I would recommend a Conn Helleberg or something from the Perantucci line. It all really depends on your playing situation. At least that's how it was for me in Highschool.

You'll pardon me, but I've witnessed live performances of the best corps in the land, and seen competition-winning marching bands of every stripe. I've even heard the dulcet tones of the premiere military dudes playing funerals using sousaphones, and playing Them Basses at the Army conference (and some of them were even sober). If the tuba players were making a sound that revealed the subtleties of a Perantucci mouthpiece versus a Kelly, I couldn't hear it. The environment just doesn't reveal such subtlety, even assuming it's there.

But I don't assume it's there. The Kelly mouthpieces may not be just like any given metal mouthpiece, but they are completely competent mouthpieces that just work. Many professionals use them at all outdoor performances.

If you want a Helleberg, be my guest and get a Kellyberg. If you think the judges will notice, get one in metallic gold and they'll think it's metal.

Rick "who has several" Denney

[TUbajohn20J]

Dont know why everyone is recommending a PLASTIC mouthpiece!!!! I always stay away from that garbage. I have done marching band for about 10 years and have always used a Helleberg. All my marching seasons have been in Texas so not really exposed to very extreme temperatures, but the Helleburg has done fine. Projects well, and articulates clearly. Down here, you are sort of frowned upon for using a kellyburg or other "plastic" mouthpiece. To me i just dont get the right sound. Most tuba players at schools around here march Helleburgs also..or the Vincent Bach line. (mostly Bach 18's, 12's, and 7's) Those are priced right and work very well on sousaphones also (7 being the biggest, and a very good mouthpiece). I say go with any of those, or a Conn Helleburg. You'll be happy you did

[ztuba]

If you want to waste a ton of money on mouthpieces that sound very good on sousaphone, get a loud LM-3,4,5,7, or a Giddings and Webster Baer MMVI for CC tuba. Of course you will need a part time job now so that by the time you drop any of those fine mouthpieces on the ground, you will be able to shell out another $155-189.50 to get a replacement. OR..... get a Kellyerg or Kelly 18. My best suggestion is to convince your entire brass section to get the same color and everyone switch to Kelly. I played some seriously heavy tuba parts with the symphony using my Kellyberg. I prefer my Giddings and Webster mouthpieces, but the kelly has enough projection and core to get the job done no matter how loud you are going to have to play. You control your sound... not your gear. I personally shelled out over $1200 in high end mouthpieces that were great and gave me that even better than normal sound on the marching band field... If I had a Kellyberg and the knowledge that I could have saved that much money by sparing the high end equipment for the concert hall... I would do it in a heartbeat. Please don't repeat mistakes of others ... get a plastic mouthpiece for your marching brass and leave the good stuff for the concert horn that doesn't have a bunch of parts that are held together with only pressure.

[Donn]

Down here, you are sort of frowned upon for using a kellyburg or other "plastic" mouthpiece. To me i just dont get the right sound.

Well, honestly my Kellyberg is not my favorite mouthpiece for sousaphone, but the problem is not that it's plastic, it's just that I happen to like the bore/cup/rim of another mouthpiece better. But that isn't what Funcoot needs to know - there's no particular reason to think he (?) and I are all that similar, so my personal preferences are irrelevant. Huge crowds of tuba players do well with the Kellyberg, and the Kelly 18, and they're an inexpensive option that's perfect for this application, so given this essentially generic question, there's no more sensible recommendation. That's why everyone is recommending a plastic mouthpiece, QED.

If they're sort of frowned on, all the better. Anything you do well on equipment that's supposed to be inferior, you look twice as good.

[Nick Pierce]

A while back I tested out three different mouthpieces on a Jupiter four valve sousaphone. The pieces tested were a Kellyberg, a GW Diablo (old style) and my PT 88+. Unfortunately the room wasn't the most desirable for such a test (considering there was a basketball game going on inside it ) but I think the results are still interesting. The winner, from the perspective of both myself and a section mate, was the GW Diablo. Second runner up was the Kellyberg, and in last place was the PT, which I attribute to maybe the piece being too big for the horn for things to slot correctly, or something like that. Anyone have a guess? Anyways, the GW and the Kellyberg were actually pretty close; the GW had a fuller sound, according to my section mate, with more core and punch to the sound. I agreed. However, the Kellyberg still sounded very good with the horn (or as good as can be expected) and took whatever I gave it. Another item of note is that for some reason I felt that I had increased endurance using the Kelly, and I was able to play longer after a game using it then a game using the GW. While using the GW, I also noticed that it was a bit more work to get that better sound out of it. This was just a few experiments during a basketball game, so it's not conclusive at this point. I plan to run a thorough test of several different mouthpieces on those horns before the fall season begins.

Oh, and one other finding. The Kellyberg's a friend and I bought (during one of those rather convenient sales) were easily, far superior to the metal pieces that came with the sousaphones, Jupiter copies of the Bach 18, I believe. Metal vs. plastic isn't the only issue to be considered; apparently not even the most important issue to be considered.

Those are my findings, take them or leave them.

[bort]

I used a Bach Megatone 18 through college (concert band and on the school's 20K's), because it's what I had. Worked fine for me!

[jon112780]

In my sousaphone playin' days, I always found something that a shallow, bowl- cupped mouthpiece works the best. Getting articulations clean on a sousaphone is a bit harder than your regular concert tuba. If you don't mind spending the extra $$$, a LM-10 is a good match for a sousaphone, although as some have already mentioned, being used for marching band it'll probably eventually be dropped. You could get the screw rim option and take your chances, and then replace the rim if it's damaged.

[WoodSheddin]

The problem here is that none of you lifetime marchers are *professional* marchers.

Further, to get the correct answer here, shouldn't we be consulting a sousatologist?

Plastic rim.

[lgb&dtuba]

We are talking about a sousaphone in a high school marching band, right? No one listening to a high school marching band is going to hear or care about any differences in sousaphone mouthpieces. But if you want to play "who has the most expensive mouthpiece", go for it.

Notice how many experienced people here suggesting a Kelly 18 or Kellyburg for your situation. Notice how many people here still use them in certain situations. A $150 mouthpiece on a school owned sousaphone is like putting $1500 rims on a rental car.

[iiipopes]

Personal experience of playing many souzys and mouthpiece/horn combinations:

If the souzy is a King, Reynolds or a Jupiter with the .687/.689 bore, you need a funnel to keep it from sounding harsh, like a Conn 120S, Schilke H or HII, etc., but with a comfy rim for marching. Temperature extremes: Kellyburg in your choice of color.

If the souzy is a 14K or variant, including Buescher and Yamaha, with a .728/.730/.734 bore, then something more rounded cup for projection is good, like a Blessing 18 (the best Mt Vernon style 18 Bach never made) or a Kelly 18.

On the 38K and I would suppose for other uber-souzys, a PT82 does really well.

Don't go too large a cup diameter or too deep a cup, because center and projection in good tone and tune is the name of the game.

Get a Kelly, or get several, just because, to have outdoors and as a spare.

A 24AW, 25, or similar is basically worthless, because it's just not big enough to get projection with body of tone.

Some of the other PT's may work well, but I wouldn't go over 33mm, 1.30, cup width, and I'd stay in the .325, 8.25mm throat neighborhood with moderate backbore territory, not too much larger or smaller, to keep everything even and help with the breath support, and again, a little more funnel with the .687 horns and a little more bowl with the .734 horns.

A LOUD LM-7 has great definition.

Most souzy gigs are outdoors. Most of the crowd is far away, or close just momentarily as a parade passes by. I wouldn't spend too many $$ on a "boutique" mouthpiece. The only reason for the PT82 is because I do a significant number of gigs indoors with this particular souzy, and the stage environment with drama production curtains, high ceiling with production lights, and lack of soundshell necessitate everything I can do to get the sound out front.

Did I say I keep my Kelly 18 handy at all times? I have an 18 instead of a Kellyberg because of the 38K, and I prefer the 1.28 cup diameter.

One thing about the Kelly mouthpieces: wrap a piece of golfer's swingweight lead tape around the throat in order to stabilize dynamic extremes.

[Uncle Buck]

I have not done any sousaphone playing in a long time.

In my opinion, the previous posters in this thread whose advice I would consider the most valuable are directing you to either a Kelly 18 or a Kellyberg.

Either would work - but with some differences. Buying one of each wouldn't cost too much $$ either.

[iiipopes]

Either would work - but with some differences. Buying one of each wouldn't cost too much $$ either.

And you can buy 2 or 3 of each for the price of a "boutique" mouthpiece.

[djwesp]

This is just going to be garbeldeegoop of my thoughts about this thread.

1. Rick, for the first time ever, I find myself disagreeing with you. In the upper tier marching bands and corps these days, quality of sound has become a HUGE issue. The differences from mouthpiece material (especially as vast as lexan vs. metal) are enormous.

2. Sousaphones by their very nature almost always (of course, opinion) merit a funnel or moderately funnelled mouthpiece. Cups, by nature, brighten the sound...meaning... sousaphones can cross the line into grotesque easier than with a funnel. I have yet to find a situation where "pig squealing" is the desired timbre of the instrument (although i'm sure the tnfj will support some places seriously/satiric that are).

3. The constant "you will drop it" stuff is not necessarily true. As a member of 11 years of marching band (high school/collegiate), and 7 years of drum corps (bottom tier division 3 to world champion), I have NOT ONCE dropped a mouthpiece on the pavement, grass, dirt, gym floor, etc. THE AMOUNT OF CARE YOU TAKE IN MAINTAINING YOUR EQUIPMENT IS A CHOICE, NOT A DESTINY. If you buy a nice mouthpiece, stick it in the shank firmly and rotate it while pushing at least 180degrees, unless you are goofing off and being dumb or careless, the mouthpiece will stay put.

4. Take care of your lips! Putting a $150 mouthpiece on a school horn IS PERFECTLY acceptable. Our connection to our instruments, as brass players, is one of the most personal in music, it makes sense to be COMFORTABLE and use good stuff, even in bad situations (like a sousaphone).

5. PLAY A BUNCH OF MOUTHPIECES. People can push and pull you in 100's of directions. Put yourself in a setting to play mouthpieces, either by send and return (some stores do this!), or going to a music shoppe, or finding a collegiate musician/teacher with a stockpile. No opinion can replace the ACTUAL playing of the mouthpiece as the judge of how it will perform.


beginning to ramble... too much coffee....

[djwesp]

Don't make me angry...You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.