E Flat tuba and F Tubas

[tubashaman2]

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[jeopardymaster]

Seeing that Willson post got me thinking - I sure heard a lot of good early WOM on their Eb, but not so much lately. Have the newer Miraphones taken it off the "sexy" list?

I've never played the Willson, but trying both the NorStar and the StarLite got me feeling a bit "horny," though not to the point of regretting marrying my 983.

[DonnieMac]

When the band's music (your part) in boring, uninteresting or just simply dumb, haul out either your EEb of F tuba and make the best of it. EEb goes smoothly in most band music, the fingerings won't break you. For further challenge pull out your F tuba where in band music the fingerings can get pretty weird. This will benefit your low register chops. For orchestra parts where bunches of sharps (#####) pop up to confuse you, the F tuba is usually better than the EEb and more traditional. When later you return to your contra bass horn you will feel "delivered."

[eupher61]

"there is no such thing as a more difficult key, only less familiar".

--a former teacher from whom I got that, and almost nothing else.

[Amilcare]

"there is no such thing as a more difficult key, only less familiar".

--a former teacher from whom I got that, and almost nothing else.

Actually, you may have not been listening very well;-)

I have a Willson EEb (It's really a BIG Eb). It weighs a ton, but has more weight in its sound than any other Eb. Its tununing seems too sharp overall, but it settles down after 6 months. Sadly, it's rarely imported to the US, and costs a ton. I got a deal on mine as it had been used as a demo.

[J.c. Sherman]

But I'm as pro-bass-tuba as you can get, but I will always raise a strong thumbs-up for Eb!

So, are you saying that there's a big difference, in principle, between Eb and F tubas, or have we been talking about characteristic Eb and F tubas, where there would also be a few exceptions to the rule?

For example, let's say one of us has a Cerveny 641 rotary Eb, and the other has a Willson 3200 F -- which one has the Eb tuba?

Interesting question. I'd say your first statement is close to right. My Eb is a "typical" as you can get, save for the last few years with the new Miraphones coming in. And when you look at "typical" Fs, they are a different timbre, usually.

I'll admit that for transposing treble clef, I use Eb on Eb works, and F on F works for ease. And when reading concert pitch treble clef, I prefer F in general. I tend to play Eb for my Arban work, and Brass Band work (and BBb for the lower part). So there are occasions where there is an "ease of use issue", I suppose.

But for Bass Clef, it's all about sound. I use my Eb for much the same work as most people use their 4/4 CC. I have a 4/4 CC, but I am admittedly sparing in its use... Oddly, bell direction is one of the chief reasons to pick one over the other. Also, conductors do often hear with their eyes, so I'll play the CC for some occasions when I think I may have an "it's a band tuba" issue.

Your mileage may vary... start jumping on me

J.c.

P.S. - I like the quote about key signatures - classic! And true!

[kingrob76]

Clearly, the best answer is to buy an Eb tuba and have it cut to an F.

[jonesbrass]

OP, you asked for some advice. Save your pennies until you have enough to pay for what you want in cash. Take a trip to Dillons/Baltimore Brass/Tuba Exchange/Horn Guys/Custom Music. Play every horn in the shop regardless of name on the bell or key, and find the right one for you. Might be an EEb Soverign, might be a B&S; might be new or used; might be piston or rotary; might be compensating or non-compensating . . . it really doesn't matter as long as you can make music with it, and it inspires you to play. My .02. Good luck.

[tubatooter1940]

My Russian Army tuba was an Eb.
I liked that pitch because it matched up so well with high baritone range of our lead singer. The low range in most keys is just right.
I bought a 1940 King Eb recording tuba on flea-bay for $350 that plays pretty well and added three water keys. It has a warm sound and a pretty high range for solos.
I always wanted to try out a Besson Eb.

[MikeS]

An Eflat for me was pretty much a no-brainer since I play in a British style brass band. Just because I can play in Ab major and Db major on an F tuba doesn't make it fun. After you have proven to yourself you can do it, you get tired of constantly untying your fingers after "Colonel Bogey" or the like. Besides, those of us that have been around central Ohio for a while had the benefit of hearing Paul Bierly play. Paul played, and played very well, his whole career in the Columbus Symphony on a big Martin Eflat.

[Steve Inman]

for those that made the choice to play either an F tuba or E Flat . what was the determining factor to choose one over the other?

is it the sound ? your teacher recomendation? or the type of playing you do?

i play CC tuba but i am considering an F or E flat to complement my contrass playing. i play on Rudolf meinl tuba. so i need advice.

I bought an Eb initially, to get away from playing BBb in a quintet. The local community orchestra tubist was playing Eb at the time for his bass tuba, and that being my only influence, that's what I decided to get. I have switched back and forth between Eb and F for my bass tuba over the past 15 years or so. I've owned an old Conn 3V with added 4th, an HN White EB that Carl Kleinsteuber purchased several years ago and turned into a nice CC then back to a 5V Eb, a Besson 983, a Yamaha YEB-381 non-comp 5V Eb, an Amati 6V F ("quint" 5th valve), a YFB-621, and my current YEB-381 Eb. I've tooted on the YFB-822, the Miraphone 181 F, the Miraphone Firebird F, the Miraphone Norwegian Star Eb, the Meinl Weston piston Eb, and a couple of Willson Eb tubas -- all during occasional visits to Brasswind. I am presently playing my Yamaha Eb for quintet, small church ensembles, medium church orchestras -- everything I do.

A few thoughts from an amateur tubist who has owned several "flavors" of bass tuba:

Most rotary F tubas have a few medium-low notes around low C (2 ledger lines below the staff) that are at least somewhat challenging to play. Those who play F tuba a LOT will dispute this, and others will dispute the dispute by stating they've heard "so and so pro tuba player" botch a low C in a performance. Blah blah. The low C on my Yamaha Eb plays just as easily as the low C on my Conn 56J CC. The low C on many a rotary F does not. With lots of practice this note may become reliable by many players. On a very few mythical, rotary F tubas on the planet that I have never found, this note may play without any careful attention. But usually it does not. Since I have never wanted to fight with my tuba, I have heretofore avoided rotary F tubas. End of story. And it's a sad story, 'cause I really LIKE the sound of a rotary F tuba. And I really WANT to find one that I could fall in love with. Really.

Exception (every story has one): The Miraphone Firebird's low C is "almost" a no-brainer note. Almost.
Exception (#2): I've heard it claimed that the Cerveny 653-5 also has an easy low C. Never had the chance to play one.

Eb thoughts --

I don't like compensating Eb tubas. I had a Besson 983 for a while and generally liked the horn. I did not like playing from low BBb down -- the resistance was too annoying for me to deal with. Again, perhaps I'm just lazy. But I don't want to have to fight my instrument. I'd rather switch than fight! (You old timers will get that allusion....)

I DO like the Yamaha 5V Eb model that I presently have. The top action is acceptable, not ideal. Perhaps somewhat like Rick, I'm beginning to develop some sort of issue with my left eye that I need to have checked. A bit of a blur in the very center of vision. Not encouraging. If this persists, I may have to switch to some sort of front action horn.

A few comments about the YEB-381:
1. Nice sound in the upper register. Not quite "F-like" but close enough for me.
2. Easy playing everywhere.
3. 5th valve is a dependent valve in the 4th valve slide. So you have to play E and B 2+4 and lip down slightly.
4. Main tuning slide isn't terribly long and these horns tend to play a bit sharp, requiring a long tuning slide pull.
5. The leadpipe also comes off the horn at an awkward angle, requiring a slight outward turn to the right side of the horn, so it doesn't sit quite perpendicular across your right leg.
6. THE GOOD NEWS -- a single sousy tuning bit fixes both issue #4 and issue #5 above, for a few bucks and a few emails to find one.
7. My particular horn has an extension on the rotary 5th valve lever so you can use either your left hand thumb (standard configuration) or your right hand thumb (a really clever improvement) to activate the 5th valve.
8. My particular horn has a 5th valve extension, expertly hand crafted by Lee Stofer, so the 5th can be flat half step (standard configuration) or flat whole step (a really clever improvement, if I do say so myself).

With a few of the above tweaks, this horn can cover all the basses (heh heh) as a modest-sized do-it-all horn. The only limitation is that it sounds like a 3/4 tuba when you're using it as a pretend contrabass. But the notes are there and speak very easily. Because of this, I find this horn to be a very nice quintet horn, especially when those 2nd trombone parts show up and you choose to play the parts as written. My Conn 56J would just be too woofy in that range, for such a part. A tuba like this is also a nice choice for pit orchestras for civic theater productions, where complaints typically abound that "the orchestra is too loud" anyway.

Steve's conclusion: I have ended up preferring Eb due to it's broad range of uses. From time to time when I'm playing the Eb almost exclusively, I do miss the fuller sound of a contrabass, however. Based on other tubas I've played, I think a Yamaha YFB-822 would probably be as capable in the "do-it-all" role as my Eb is.

The Yamaha Eb is NOT a big bass tuba, however. If you're planning to solo with an orchestra behind you, and want to project well to the back row of the house, then you may wish to consider a 6/4 rotary F and learn to deal with the mid/low register issues, in order to get a bigger, more focused sound.

There are some misc. thoughts from my perspective.

Cheers,