BBb vs CC?

[dopey]

i'd suggest searching. I know you will find enough material for a very long long long long read..

this topic has been debated beyond belief..

[Chuck(G)]

When people say that BBb and CC horns sound different, why is this? I am aware that they are pitched differently, but when a CC horn depresses its first valve, shouldn't the sound be the same as that of a BBb? Even though the overtones series is different, the CC is essentially keyed in BBb as long as that first valve is depressed. So why do people claim that there is a difference in sound?

Because there really is. A CC horn has about 2 feet less tapered (read "large") tubing than a BBb. When you push the first valve down on any horn, you're just adding straight (i.e. "trombone") tubing to the instrument air path.

If you want to extend your analogy a bit, a large F tuba and a small BBb tuba (about the same size) should sound the same, since they've got the same amount of tubing if you press 45 down on the F (assuming a long whole step 5).

But they don't, do they?

[Chuck(G)]

I see what you mean, Chuck.

BBb tubas are a whole step lower than CC tubas (obviously), so lower notes are going to be easier. Since CC tubas are higher, it will be easier to play high on them. A CC horn will also have a greater need for a fifth valve than a BBb to play EEE's in tune.

A CC (as compared to a BBb of the same size) will also have a somewhat lighter (different) sound and be a bit nimbler. As for "easiness" of high notes, two semitones of difference doesn't amount to much in that regard.

The big deal for a 5th valve on CC's is, IMOHO, to first get the low F better in tune as well as playing lower notes down chromatically to the pedal CCC more or less in tune.

[Rick Denney]

The fact is, better CC tubas are available than BBb tubas because of the demand for CC horns.

That was likely true at one time, but I think it's a difficult point to support now. There are many outstanding BBb tubas available, including the King 2341, the Miraphone 1291, the Meinl-Weston Fafner, the Rudy Meinl, the Willson 3100, the Gronitz PBK (one expects), and so on. These are on a par with their CC counterparts, it seems to me. (Granted, the King may not have the same fit and finish as the Conn 5xJ, but it's cheaper enough so that you can pay someone to go through and work out all the issues.)

What BBb tubas also have is value. You can spend under $7000 and get a state-of-the-art instrument, and even the most expensive BBb instruments are much cheaper than, say, a Yorkbrunner.

My advice on the subject varies with the individual doing the asking. If a person has the talent and drive to have legitimate hopes for a high-end pro gig, they should use CC tubas just because that's what their teachers will expect them to use. The only exception would be if the student has a BBb tuba that is just perfect for them in ways no CC has proven to be. But they should still learn to play CC (as well as Eb and F). Most people (myself included) stayed with BBb because we felt no desire or compulsion to learn to play CC's, but this is an unacceptable excuse for anyone with legitimate professional aspirations.

For amateurs, however, I see no general reason for making the switch. There may be cases where a person wants to make the switch for specific reasons (DP comes to mind as an example), but for most of us, we will get better instruments for less money if we stick with BBb.

From any functional point of view, they are largely interchangeable, with the advantages and disadvantages of each being lost in the general noise of difference between one instrument and the next.

I'm currently playing Barnum! on my BBb Holton. The most difficult bits were written for BBb sousaphone (though why anyone would write in the key of D for a sousaphone is beyond me when they could have asked the singers to raise their pitch a mere semitone and allowed the sousaphone player to use the much easier key of Eb--even so, I'm managing on BBb without too much difficulty).

Rick "thinking that solo wouldn't be any easier on a CC" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

For amateurs, however, I see no general reason for making the switch. There may be cases where a person wants to make the switch for specific reasons (DP comes to mind as an example), but for most of us, we will get better instruments for less money if we stick with BBb.

There are also amateurs who can appreciate good instruments without regard to the key and decide not to be limited by that facet of the instrument. Even amateur horn players (if they ever have any aspiration to play orchestral literature) learn to transpose and the skill wouldn't be a bad one for amateur tuba players to acquire.

Although I still generate some substantial ear-smoke when playing TC Bb bass brass band parts on a CC...

[AndyCat]

This is an international, cosmapolitan site? Isn't it? Wink

Sometimes I wonder Mike!

from a BBb user. Only BBb, so therefore only ever an amateur!

[MartyNeilan]

[quote="bloke
BBb & EEb basses
CC & F tubas
[/quote]

So, are BBb/CC convertible horns BUBAs?