Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by Rick Denney »

tubashaman2 wrote:I am one of those who uses the Ride to test horns low range but without music in front of me.....

Again, testing how horns play in my opinion is more important than what others think when you don't have music in front of you
Why does this not surprise me?

If the Ride is your only head tune, I would suggest that you keep working on those excerpts. Try the Fountains of Rome--I hear that's a really good test tune.

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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by GC »

Fifth valve.
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by windshieldbug »

Regarding rotary venting, my 1974 Mirafone 184 came with factory venting in the casing... (still has it, last time I looked a couple of days ago... :shock: )
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by GC »

GC wrote:

Fifth valve.

Never.....

RC
Okay, 4th valve.

Seriously, nothing says that a fad that sticks can't be totally functional and become indispensable.
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by Matt G »

tubashaman2 wrote:I am one of those who uses the Ride to test horns low range but without music in front of me.....

Again, testing how horns play in my opinion is more important than what others think when you don't have music in front of you
Better testing tools of the low register (IMO):

-Fountains (but it is another fan favorite in the elephant room)
-Prok. Sym. No. 5
-Prok. R&J
-Clarke studies in that register
-Rochut studies transposed 8vb
-Scales
-Hindemith Symphonic Metamorphosis.

The "ride" only tests a few critical notes in one specific key. Sure, that low E needs to be solid, but so does Eb for a low of work and low D, etc. Also, all of those above tunes should be in your head if you are indeed heading off for grad school. Find this book and commit a good deal of it to memory. You'll have all the low register testing licks needed:

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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by David Richoux »

LJV wrote:I haven't read anything that has universally "stuck."

Seems to me that the only thing that "stuck" is that we are more diversified in our acceptable choices.

Which is great!
I previously posted "Spit valves" - one would think they have been around forever, but many horns built before around 1880 don't have them and my Danish F tuba c. 1890-1895 doesn't either.

I doubt there is a tuba made today without at least one water key...
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by tubashaman2 »

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Last edited by tubashaman2 on Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by lgb&dtuba »

To me there's a difference between "fads" and actual innovations or evolutions.

For example, that spit valves having been pretty much universally adopted by instrument manufacturers seems more like a technological and practical improvement than a fad that stuck.

Floating lead pipes may or may not qualify as a fad. I think the defining characteristic of a fad may be whether or not a grass movement, do it yourself, or get your local repairman to do it for you phase preceded the manufacturers including it in their products. In this case, does anyone know whether or not floating lead pipes started with individuals or not? I know I had it done to my previous tuba, but I don't know if there were stock tubas out there at the time already coming from the factory that way or not.

Of course the fad may have been having them soldered to the bell to begin with. Or not so much a fad as a response to school horns failing at the lead pipe due to rough handling. Historians??

Soldering coins to rotary valve spatulas seems more like a fad. One that hasn't been widely (if at all) picked up by manufacturers.

Cryo freezing instruments clearly seems like a fad that has been picked up by some manufacturers and fits the spirit of the OP.
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by Rick Denney »

lgb&dtuba wrote:I think the defining characteristic of a fad may be whether or not a grass movement, do it yourself, or get your local repairman to do it for you phase preceded the manufacturers including it in their products.
Naw. The test of a fad is whether all the cool kids have to have it before anyone (including said cool kids) can explain what it does or demonstrate whether it works. It becomes popular for not other reason than popularity. Occasionally, though, it really does do good (on some level, and maybe more for the manufacturer than the player) and transcends mere fad.

The Blokepiece, for example, is not a fad, any more than the Stofer Geib is a fad. Both of those are based on time-tested mouthpiece designs, and only a few of the early adopters are cool kids (as distinct from those who the cool kids are trying to emulate).

And the fifth valve might be considered a fad, even though it's been on tubas since, oh, about 1836.

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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by The Jackson »

What's the history on slide-pulling?
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by tubashaman2 »

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Last edited by tubashaman2 on Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by David Richoux »

lgb&dtuba wrote:To me there's a difference between "fads" and actual innovations or evolutions.

For example, that spit valves having been pretty much universally adopted by instrument manufacturers seems more like a technological and practical improvement than a fad that stuck.
Maybe a good interpretation, but what about all those horn players from the mid-1800s (the "Golden Age of Brass Bands") who didn't have any spit valves and had to turn or pull slides to drain their horns - I bet they were pretty envious of all the "cool kids" who had those newfangled gadget water keys ;-)

and turning a OTS tuba is quite a tricky thing. I have one (actually a Robb Stewart replica) and eventually had a key put on - damn the historical accuracy!
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by iiipopes »

One item I have done that I wish would become standard is the conversion of the upper loop of the 1st valve circuit on a Conn souzy block to a workable slide. I've done it to two with great effect, and I believe even bloke has done this to his sparkle souzy.
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by EdFirth »

I would like to address the BBb tubas are for H.S sousaphone players comment.While C tubas unargueably have a prettier sound when played alone BBb's are not without credibility. If you play two identical horns, other than the key difference, the BBb has alot more lows. Which is kind of the function in a trombone and tuba situation. Arnold Jacobs, in the earlier Fritz Reiner, Kubileck, Martineau recordings had a Very dark sound, unlike anything going on now, even though alot of big orchestra guys play copies of his horn. All I hear that is similar is the vibrato. C tubas Are easier to play and the quickest way to make a freshman in college sound better is to switch them to C.You probably couldn't win an audition today without a C but that really doesn't make BBb any less relavent in practical application after you get the job. I own a nice C but the BBb gets at least as much time on the job. So what about those heavy mouthpieces? Ed
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by kingconn »

SOUSAPHONES
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by The Jackson »

tuben wrote:
The Jackson wrote:What's the history on slide-pulling?
If you're a trombonist, the history of slide-pulling (and pushing) is extensive.....

RC
Do you have exact century/decade/year/month/day/hour specifics? I'm writing a report for school, and... :wink:
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by The Jackson »

KiltieTuba wrote:
kingconn wrote:SOUSAPHONES
Yes, they need to be bigger to fit with the overall larger trend of 6/4 and larger concert tubas
They need to be bigger to fit with the overall trend of 6/4 and larger players! :shock:
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by TubaRay »

EdFirth wrote:While C tubas unargueably have a prettier sound when played alone BBb's are not without credibility.
Although this obviously is a subjective statement, I would indeed argue that the statement is incorrect. It is incorrect due to the fact that I would argue that C tubas(actually, CC tubas) do not inherently make prettier sounds

OK. TNFJ. I know we've been down this path before, so don't jump my case about this, but I have to ask: Are you going to let this statement go unchallenged?

Since I have not really weighed in on the subject before, I will now. As a beginner, I learned on a BBb sousaphone. I did not have an actual tuba to play until I began college as a music major. At that time, I was issued a 4-valve, BBb Besson tuba. I don't even know what model it was, but it had a silver finish, and it certainly responded differently than the sousaphones I had previously played. During the early part of my sophomore year, the music department added a 4 valve, CC, Miraphone 186 to its inventory. After a period of arguing, haggling, and struggling with another of the tuba majors, I was able to wrangle it into being "my" tuba. I learned the fingerings, and have played a CC tuba ever since, although I purchased my own sometime later.

With the above information as my experience(essentially), I would offer this opinion about the various keys of tubas. The CC and BBb tubas obviously represent the contrabass tuba, and the F and Eb tubas represent the basstuba. I believe contrabass tubas fill one function and bass tubas fill another. Beyond that, the primary difference to me(I'd like to emphasize the "to me" part), is the ease of fingerings. On the contrabass side, the CC tuba accesses the sharp keys a bit better, and the BBb tuba accesses the flat keys better. The one step difference between the two makes the BBb better, by one step suited to low register work, and vice-versa. Somewhat the same can be said for the F and Eb tubas, correspondingly.

I hear all kinds of arguments that go on and on about the comparisons. For my perspective, I don't hear a difference in sound. Perhaps this is due to my lack of musicianship. Well, the last time I checked I wasn't, and hadn't been a member of a major symphony orchestra, so maybe I have no right to make such a statement. That's OK by me. I'm cashing in on being a member of the TNFJ. This entitles me to say just about anything I want. It neither makes me right, nor does it protect me from the flames.

Now, TNFJ. It's your turn.
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Re: Tuba "fads" that actually stuck

Post by Bass Flatulance »

How about QUIET VALVES? I like quiet valves but is that just a passing fad? It used to be when the valves got noisy, I'd take it to a music store and get a new set of felts installed for $20 or less. Now I'm hearing that if I don't spend $200 for noisy valves, my horn won't play well. Anyone else confused?
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