More mention of Connie Weldon

[tubashaman2]

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[Alex C]

She was also tubist for a half-hour TV show. It may have been "Gentle Ben" though the Miami connection makes me want to say it was "Flipper." She had a number of fine students in her studio at UM over the years, including Sam Palafian.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Personal opinion: I find the whole phenomenon of human beings somehow needing to point out that a person is a certain gender, color, creed, sexual orientation, or whatever to be counter-productive to the stated goal of these differences not mattering so much (otherwise known as equality). To put it another way...if people constantly point out that Carol Jantsch is "believed to be the first female tuba player in a major full-time American orchestra," it seems to me that pointing it out simply emphasizes her gender more than the amazing accomplishment of winning the job - that feat was the result of her hard work and not the make-up of her chromosomes.

How about just pointing out that Carol Jantsch, Alan Baer, Constance Weldon, Mike Roylance, Velvet Brown, Oystein Baadsvik, and a host of others too numerous to mention are all just really good tuba players?

Friendly dig: Well done, James! Only one missed question mark this time!

[tubashaman2]

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[AsiagoCheezBagel]

In reference to Todd's post - I agree that we really don't need to be pulling the gender, race, etc. cards, but keep in mind that there was a time that women were not exactly encouraged to do the things that Connie did. Today, tuba is still considered a "masculine" instrument by most people minus tubists (I know I always get looks of confusion when I tell people that I play it!). In her day, playing tuba was not exactly considered the most "feminine" thing to do. In the American culture then, women were expected to act as women should and only do things that were considered "feminine." She was a leader in a male-dominated field, which is something that is more common to see today, but not as much back then.

I'm not saying she was shunned by society or anything, but what she did was probably out of the ordinary for a woman at that time.

Female tubists are quite lucky - most of our fellow tubists could care less about our gender. I know we can all agree that all we care about in auditions is what comes out of the horn!

[eupher61]

Connie was, in the early 50's I believe, the tubist for the Kansas City Philharmonic. She was succeeded (again, I think...they may have been reversed) by Bob Eliason, later at the Henry Ford Museum.

Add in Dale Clevenger, Alan Kofsky, Dave Everson, Mike Powell, and there have been an amazing number of great brass players who have been in the KC orchestras (and left!). I know there are others I've missed.

[dwaskew]

Remember, she started what we know as tuba ensembles.

Again, we should mention her and teach others about her accomplishments, to assist in better educating the tuba community.

James--I wholeheartedly agree with your final statement. UNC Greensboro is currently working to make her colleciton of papers open to the public for further research, etc. Wonderful, wonderful person.

On the first comment that I quoted: not exactly. Miami was first to do this type of thing in a collegiate setting--but they stayed much more in the true chamber side of things. Tenn Tech, with Winston Morris at the helm, went for more of the tuba/euphonium orchestra with parts doubled, tripled, etc. which is more of what most people experience. Similar things, but somewhat different in the final product.

I was fortunate enough to be able to host the award celebration in 2004, when ITEA honored Ms. Weldon with the Lifetime Achievement Award, and was able to meet quite a few of her students--man do they have a legacy amongst them, and are truly dedicated to her as teacher and mentor.

dwa

[Matt G]

In defense of James, as mentioned above, Ms. Weldon was laying a path for future women professional brass players over 50 years ago. That was indeed a white man's world. Professional sports were also being integrated during a similar time, and while Jackie Robinson was a decent ballplayer on his own, he will be known as the first "black" or "African-American" player of the game. However, I will say the g.a.s. factor is far less now for racially integrated sports.

In the same way, I think that Philly is leveraging their current placement for a wealth of PR exposure. The tuba is indeed a big instrument, and when played by a the fairer gender, the juxtaposition is of interest. Just the ability of gaining employment with a group the caliber of the Philadelphia Orchestra, we as tuba players know, is a tremendous accomplishment. To the lay person, just playing the tuba good would be enough, but a nice young girl holding a huge tuba is interesting and worthy of note.

Ms. Weldon was discovered by me as a person of note when I was in my first year of college. However, I was both closer in proximity in regards to time and distance to Ms. Weldon's career. Time here is more of an important factor. There are many fine players of which we rarely discuss here on public boards. Sure, we discuss, Jacobs, Bell, Bobo, Self, Johnson, and Phillips, but then there is a big drop to Torchinsky, Bishop and other players of great note. When you do live in different areas and talk to local players, you will find out that there have been players of great influence on a local level in the past. You may never have heard of these people before, but that doesn't mean they weren't important.

James, when you run across someone like Ms. Weldon, I would suggest you further research it. Find out what has been printed about her in past T.U.B.A. (now ITEA) journals. Write a well-written note to some of her students of note (Pilafian and Roylance come to mind). Do this as an academic project. Publish it. That will do far more to help preserve her legacy than a BBS post. While pushing her name out there using this vehicle is noble, getting it in print in a more permanent archive would be far more useful.

Think about it this way: While a number of us can appreciate what you are doing, what weight does your OP carry? Want to make some serious waves in the academic world? Get some serious papers together on these topics and get them published.

Sidenote: One of the coolest BBb tubas I have ever seen and also sounded fantastic was a BBb Marzan 5V (4p/1r) with a detachable bell made for Ms. Weldon. Ed Firth owned that for a while, and it was quite a tuba.

Brian Fredericksen has a link:

http://www.windsongpress.com/brass%20pl ... weldon.htm

International Women's Brass Conference:

http://www.iwbc-online.org/pioneers/index.html

Recent discussion on tuba news:

http://www.tubanews.com/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=88

[jeopardymaster]

Add in Dale Clevenger, Alan Kofsky, Dave Everson, Mike Powell, and there have been an amazing number of great brass players who have been in the KC orchestras (and left!). I know there are others I've missed.

Betty Glover comes to mind.

[Rick Denney]

...but no one mentions Connie....

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It would be a shame for someone like Connie Weldon to be ignored because people are afraid to talk about her for fear of being accused of mentioning her just because she's a woman.

Rick "thinking it's not about gender" Denney

[Kayla]

I would rather be remembered as a good tuba player rather than a female tuba player. I'm sure I'm not alone in that statement.

[tubashaman2]

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[ginnboonmiller]

I would agree with Todd. Let's praise/encourage achievement, and leave references to the specific genitals, pigment, or any sort of "really well for a ___________" type of remark out of the praise/encouragement.

I don't know. That'd be great if the status quo you're tacitly supporting weren't a white-boy's club of the stodgiest order. But until elementary school teachers stop thinking that only the fat, slow white boys should play tuba, it's a genuinely big deal when a woman carves out a career for herself as a tuba player. And to do it she has to be five times as good as any white guy. Weldon clearly was that high caliber a player, and the obstacles she certainly faced and overcame as a woman in the tuba world should NOT be brushed under the carpet.

ginnboon "heavy metal drummer s.o. has taught me quite a bit about unintentional bigotry" miller

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I don't know. That'd be great if the status quo you're tacitly supporting weren't a white-boy's club of the stodgiest order. But until elementary school teachers stop thinking that only the fat, slow white boys should play tuba, it's a genuinely big deal when a woman carves out a career for herself as a tuba player. And to do it she has to be five times as good as any white guy. Weldon clearly was that high caliber a player, and the obstacles she certainly faced and overcame as a woman in the tuba world should NOT be brushed under the carpet.

What obstacles were those? Someone's words? Why would she have to be five times as good as any white guy? Are you really implying that since elementary schools don't encourage little girls to start on tuba, it's harder on them to succeed at it? "White-boy's club of the stodgiest order"? How incredibly offensive.

I believe that constantly making mention of someone's gender, color, creed, or whatever DOES brush their accomplishments "under the carpet."

[ginnboonmiller]

I don't know. That'd be great if the status quo you're tacitly supporting weren't a white-boy's club of the stodgiest order. But until elementary school teachers stop thinking that only the fat, slow white boys should play tuba, it's a genuinely big deal when a woman carves out a career for herself as a tuba player. And to do it she has to be five times as good as any white guy. Weldon clearly was that high caliber a player, and the obstacles she certainly faced and overcame as a woman in the tuba world should NOT be brushed under the carpet.

What obstacles were those? Someone's words? Why would she have to be five times as good as any white guy? Are you really implying that since elementary schools don't encourage little girls to start on tuba, it's harder on them to succeed at it? "White-boy's club of the stodgiest order"? How incredibly offensive.

I believe that constantly making mention of someone's gender, color, creed, or whatever DOES brush their accomplishments "under the carpet."

You sound more threatened than offended.

Have you not noticed that there is a lot of disproportion among tuba players when you DO start to look at gender, race, sexual orientation, etc.? I have. It implies to me that the chances of being a good tuba player are much better if you're a white man [EDIT: I should say, in the US. I'd guess my suburban upbringing and pale skin would be similarly challenging in the Mexican Banda scene]. And I know that we're only talking about a very small group of people, but look around you, look at the forum, notice the differences. It's harder to become a serious tuba player if you're a woman. Be offended, just don't do anything to change things...

Okay, further edit. What obstacles? i guess I'm thinking about stuff like lack of role models, ingrained social stigmas, fewer opportunities to start playing in the first place, etc., etc. I think a lot of people get offended because they know they aren't doing anything wrong with regard to how they deal with gender, race, sexual orientation and religion, but to focus on your own good intentions is also to ignore longer standing societal issues. The guy in the other room doesn't stop being a jerk just because I'm being a nice guy, you know?

[Todd S. Malicoate]

You sound more threatened than offended.

The reasoning for your choice of the word "threatened" escapes me. I wouldn't care if every professional tuba player on the planet were female, provided they earned their positions fair and square.

Have you not noticed that there is a lot of disproportion among tuba players when you DO start to look at gender, race, sexual orientation, etc.? I have. It implies to me that the chances of being a good tuba player are much better if you're a white man

It seems to me that those who look for such inequities are the same people who think that differences in gender matter...I thought that was what we are all trying to get past as a society. Some would prefer that everyone just have an equal opportunity to excel at whatever they wish. Your "cry for fairness" assumes that an equal number of men and women wish to be tuba players. I don't believe that's the case, or that there's any real reason a female who wishes to can't excel at playing the tuba. Also, this is the second time you've mentioned being "white" as important to being a good tuba player (along with being slow and fat ). I don't get that, either.

What obstacles? i guess I'm thinking about stuff like lack of role models, ingrained social stigmas, fewer opportunities to start playing in the first place, etc., etc. I think a lot of people get offended because they know they aren't doing anything wrong with regard to how they deal with gender, race, sexual orientation and religion, but to focus on your own good intentions is also to ignore longer standing societal issues. The guy in the other room doesn't stop being a jerk just because I'm being a nice guy, you know?

I'm curious...even if I agreed with your assessment (which I don't), what do you think us folks should do to address this long-standing societal issue?

Please don't mistake my enthusiastic debate for anger or "finger-waving"...I do enjoy the discussion and any potential benefits we might gain from it. Frankly, I find that most folks would rather just keep their mouths shut to avoid being "labeled" and I think THAT is the biggest problem we face in struggling to solve the difficult issues we face.

[ginnboonmiller]

Not sure if you're misreading me or twisting my words around, but there is SERIOUS misunderstanding going on. I'm not... Your argument is mine but backwards.

Women deserve the same opportunities as men. They don't get them. That should change.

Same thing applies to race in this country.

Get it now?

[Mojo workin']

Women deserve the same opportunities as men. They don't get them. That should change.

Same thing applies to race in this country.

Get it now?

Get what? Your liberal delusional feelings?

Who is speaker of the House of Representatives? Or Secretary of State? Or President of the United States?

When will you guys take the blinders off?

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Not sure if you're misreading me or twisting my words around, but there is SERIOUS misunderstanding going on. I'm not... Your argument is mine but backwards.

Women deserve the same opportunities as men. They don't get them. That should change.

Same thing applies to race in this country.

Get it now?

I understand your point, but still disagree that (at least, when applied to professional tuba playing) women or members of races other than "white" don't get the same opportunities as white men. In the specific example of tuba playing, I still don't think you have pointed out any specific examples of how women and minorities aren't getting the same chance. What needs to change?

But you are correct that it appears we both share the goal of equal treatment for all. I just think that focusing on statistics is self-defeating unless or until a real "barrier" exists to people of a certain gender, color, or creed. No one is going to convince me that just because most professional tuba players are white men it means that other people who aren't white men have less of a chance to become one...I simply don't believe it's the case. I freely accept that my attitude might be incorrect, but I would prefer to read about some cases of true discrimination against non-"white male" wannabe tuba players before I change my mind.

That doesn't make you "wrong" or me "right"...it's simply a difference of opinion on how to approach the problem and where to concentrate efforts to correct it. I find that my minority friends are mostly insulted when it is suggested that they need special help to correct society's inequities.

I'd be interested to hear your (and other folks') thoughts about the African-American Fellowship Program in Detroit, or the particular case in 1989 when they were pressured into skipping the screened audition process and hiring an African-American musician to avoid losing a state subsidy. Was that fairness? I believe that, by giving that person a "cut in line" into a major symphony just because of their color, it belittles the effort they put forth to become an outstanding musician in the first place.

[ginnboonmiller]

This probably isn't the thread for this debate, although it's an interesting debate. I should take a moment and say that Connie Weldon is a pretty dang important tuba player and educator - I studied with one of her students in High School, who also later taught Velvet Brown, and he was great.

Anyway, I'm wondering about this:

"No one is going to convince me that just because most professional tuba players are white men it means that other people who aren't white men have less of a chance to become one...I simply don't believe it's the case. I freely accept that my attitude might be incorrect, but I would prefer to read about some cases of true discrimination against non-"white male" wannabe tuba players before I change my mind."


In the face of the "statistics" that you don't want to look at, and in the context of other fields like management and Investment Banking and stuff... Why do you think that the disproportion exists? Do you think women just naturally want to be teachers and secretaries and don't make good Executives or tuba players? There must be an explanation, and I think lack of opportunity and a long tradition of bigotry is about the best explanation I can think of. And until Slightly more than half of ALL whatevers are women, the equal society you claim already exists just doesn't exist.

It's not an anger thing. But when women have so few role models in low brass, and we have a good one, why fight against mentioning her as one?