The Elephantine Rant of the Day - Bags and Cases

[Tundratubast]

Marty,

I know this should be in off topic, but I'd like to hear more about your crazy wife with the vandetta and the 3 lb mallet. Sounds intriguing, I hope you survived it.


Dave

[imperialbari]

Interesting to note, virtually all major damage that has been inflicted on my horns in recent years has been done while out of a case / bag - toddler throwing a full sippy cup at bell, different toddler tightening springs until they break, same knocking over horn, still different toddler climbing and jumping on horn, building maintenance opening door to "practice room" hitting bell, careless trombone player putting chair on bell, crazy wife with 3 pound mallet and a vendetta. In all of these instances, a hardcase would have made no difference.

If you impregnated that endless number of toddlers on her, you asked for the vendetta.

K

[Rick Denney]

So are you advocating placing an HB-50 in a $150 nylon sock with padding that is no different than a heavy bed quilt? That has been my standard all through this thread.

No, your standard was $5000. That moves down into old Holton range. Your HB-50 story was an example, not a standard.

And your post was an attack as it was intended to be. Not all attacks are inappropriate, and I don't have any problem with launching an attack on this topic. It was the ad hominem part that I was pointing out--attacking the person and not the behavior. And preempting what might be legitimate debate by stating that disagreement is idiocy.

I would buy and use hard cases if I could get them like the Yamaha case, even for tubas I paid less than $5000 for.

As to what does and does not cause back damage, or how such is treated, we'll have to compare notes. I am not inexperienced with those issues.

Rick "who doesn't carry the Holton like a backpack" Denney

[imperialbari]

Rick, why don’t you make Wade sit on your lap, while you in a low voice tell him the finer details of your point?

Some may out-run their opponents.

Others will sit them out for good, be they ironmen or not.

K

[Wyvern]

Rick "who doesn't carry the Holton like a backpack" Denney

I think to lift a BAT up onto ones back to carry like a backpack is in itself a BIG strain. Although my Neptune gig bag does include straps for so doing, I have only ever carried it by the handles for the (usually) short distance from car to building. When I have a real long hike to the gig, I make a smaller tuba suffice, even at the cost of sound.

Carrying methods for me are a balancing between practicality, risk to the tuba and risk to my own health. The relative costs of bags v cases is not a big factor!

Jonathan "who uses gig bag over case 95+% of the time"

[pgym]

So are you advocating placing an HB-50 in a $150 nylon sock with padding that is no different than a heavy bed quilt? That has been my standard all through this thread.

Um ... in that case, you might want to go back and edit your initial rant, because in the UNEDITED version, it you wrote:

Come on people, if you cannot afford a few hundred bucks more when you are about to pull the trigger on $5,000 (or whatever the cost) THEN SAVE A LITTLE LONGER!

So ...

No, your standard was $5000. That moves down into old Holton range. Your HB-50 story was an example, not a standard.

Rick 1, elephant 0.

[Donn]

The only thing I have in that price range is a bass saxophone, and I bag it. The case is quite large, and moderately heavy even though it sacrifices strength for lightness. Used it anyway, early on, but after an episode where arguably the case caused an incident and then failed to really protect the instrument, I gave up on that. (Though in that particular incident, the case's ability to float with the sax inside was a critically important virtue.)

If I had to carry it around as much as I used to, I'd get back to work on my `coroplast' bag. Also known as `fluted polypropylene', this stuff is strong, resilient, and reasonably cheap - it's commonly used in yard signs, for example. Looks a little like corrugated cardboard, and my theory is that a single layer would provide much better protection than a bag. I have this feeling that foam padding is too soft - it feels good to you, but your tuba is very hard and it's going to make contact with other hard objects in a way that compresses that foam down to nothing before it gets anywhere near damage forces.

Fluted polypropylene is kind of hard to work with - I mean, it's easy to take it where it wants to go, but you have to design to its limitations - and it tends to look like junk, but as part of a semi-soft case with a liner and an outer canvas shell it could be pretty nice.

[jmerring]

Bravo! Grazie, molto bene grazie!!

[MartyNeilan]

I am VENTING and not making attacks on anyone here, save for the man with whom I exchanged angry words the other night because his tuba was very badly damaged. He was also getting on me for no longer being able to fix his mess! This affluent businessman comes up to me like I am his freaking buddy two years ago and pumps me for advice. He glad hands me until he gets what he needs and then stops talking to me. When his foolish choices end up bringing about the possible bad end I had described to him very clearly he tells everyone in my circle that I gave him "bad advice" and makes public comments about "taking him to the cleaners." When I confront him in the same circle a week later he says its alright now and not to worry. Then privately he lets it be know that my fixing his tuba for free would make us best buddies again. I was, even up to this absolutely ridiculous point, still very nice and framed my response in terms of "I do not work at a shop any longer." So he again tries to damage my standing with my colleagues by telling all these people that I had welched on a deal that we had! OF ALL THE DAMNED NERVE! So this entire thread is an outgrowth of that experience, AS I HAVE SAID SEVERAL TIMES. I am sick of this guy and hope he is reading this right now - this entire thread has been an ode to this man. need to take care of their less expensive belongings then that is foolishness. Failing to be responsible about something more costly than the cars driven my many people is a sign of stupidity, not foolishness. It is not some behavioral error but a failure to comprehend. I view the human animal through VERY different lenses than you, based on a VERY different life. I have zero sympathy for stupid behavior and have no problem calling a person who regularly exhibits such as a "stupid" person. That is not an "attack" but an very valid observation. And all of this thus far has been aimed at ONE GUY as I have repeatedly said.

I say we just let the TNFJ dispense some justice on this guy!


(or, we could just introduce him to James...)

[Rick Denney]

Fluted polypropylene is kind of hard to work with - I mean, it's easy to take it where it wants to go, but you have to design to its limitations - and it tends to look like junk, but as part of a semi-soft case with a liner and an outer canvas shell it could be pretty nice.

That's exactly how those Chinese semi-hard cases that Wade mentioned are made. They use that stuff for the shell, covered in polyester imitation Cordura, and with a polystyrene insert. It's between a hard case and a gig bag in effectiveness. I wouldn't mind having a set for my tubas.

And to Wade: Man, I read every word. I'm a good reader, too. I'm not sure it was as clear as you think it was who the target of your rage was. But I'd gladly participate in the Goon Squad needed to encourage the guy's silence.

Rick "who can be as mean as Wade" Denney

[averagejoe]

Fluted polypropylene is kind of hard to work with - I mean, it's easy to take it where it wants to go, but you have to design to its limitations - and it tends to look like junk, but as part of a semi-soft case with a liner and an outer canvas shell it could be pretty nice.

That's exactly how those Chinese semi-hard cases that Wade mentioned are made. They use that stuff for the shell, covered in polyester imitation Cordura, and with a polystyrene insert. It's between a hard case and a gig bag in effectiveness. I wouldn't mind having a set for my tubas.

Why don't these Chinese manufacturers coat the cases you are talking about with the hard plastic used on most hard cases? That would make them have near hard case protection. I am not sure if everybody saw my post in this thread about the case I wish existed, but I was surprised at the response by someone (sorry I forgot who) who said that he never used the backpack straps on his gig bag. The backpack straps are the ONLY reason I used my gig bag. I say used because this thread (even if not TheElephants intention) convinced me that my soft cordura bag did not provide the protection I had assumed it did. I like having the tuba on my back because I can balance myself while walking. Carrying my horn like it is Frankensteins briefcase is uncomfortable even when using a bag. I just want a hard case that I can strap on to my back. Also, I never walked indoors with my gig bag and tuba on my back after an incident in a church when I first got the new horn/soft case where I accidentally knocked over some candle stands at a church I was playing at. So... yeah. I just wanted to specify so that if this post gets picked apart, I would be able to point out that I want backpack straps for outdoors and I would use the normal handle/rollers for indoors. So, have any of you instrument repair guys thought of making cases? but seriously, I would buy one

[Wyvern]

if you have two tubas in two heavy leather bags that weigh a total of 80 pounds and have to walk a half mile like that several times each day.

You lead an incredibly hard life Wade! You must really be an Elephant to carry that load
Does your orchestra not provide any assistance with transportation of equipment? Would it not be easier to say leave the Holton at work and practice at home on the 2165 than carrying two tubas back and forth?

I don't know about legislation in the US, but in Europe the Health & Safety at work regulations would not allow for someone to carry such loads.

[tubeast]

Hello Tubenetters,
I´m using SOUNDWARE gigbags. They never disappointed me.
I DO follow some principles, though:
- on trips, I´m right with my horns whenever they are accessible by public.
- if at all possible, I try to put my horns down at places that are somewhat away from traffic (as in: corners of hallways, seperate rooms...)
- I´m the one who places MY instruments in storage compartments, and I ALSO am the one who places other instruments / gear around them to offer protection.
As to using backpack straps: with my F-tuba, I´m pretty much of a shape to prevent somebody facing me from seeing my horn. If I can go through an opening, so can my horn. With the bigger horn, at least I can minimise my silhouette this way.

[MartyNeilan]

I only ever use the LEFT backpack strap to carry a tuba, needing my hands free to open doors and fend off errant string players and *rolls eyes* singers (the worst for carelessly stepping on or knocking over expensive equipment). I only ever use my right shoulder when I have two horns on my back, which is unfortunately becoming more frequent. I use nothing else to carry my stuff as it is too easy for me to damage or drop stuff with any other system..... Using a single strap allow me to maneuver easily and with the tuba cinched up as high as it will go.

Legitmate question:
Isn't there a greater chance of tearing the strap off the bag, when constantly carrying around with only one backback strap? Or, are those bags made "bulletproof" to prevent that?