Pedal notes on an Eb horn

[Hank74]

Hello all,

As you can tell from my signature, I have an Eb helicon that I'm still learning how to play. I know the Eb fingering guides say the pedal Ab is played with a 1-2-3 valve combo on any Eb horn.

However, I have noticed that I can play notes below the Ab. Would there be a fingering chart for these pedal notes? I might have been playing a pedal Eb and Bb since they don't require any valve combos.

In the meantime, I'm still practicing on the regular scale for Eb.

[The Big Ben]

However, I have noticed that I can play notes below the Ab. Would there be a fingering chart for these pedal notes? I might have been playing a pedal Eb and Bb since they don't require any valve combos.

Use your tuner to give you a little feedback about the notes you are playing. If you diddle around long enough, you'll figure out what works.

[imperialbari]

This comes up frequently. Not everybody likes these fake or privileged notes in the range above the open pedal note:

Ab = 0 (open)
G = 2
Gb = 1
F = 1+2 or 3
E natural = 2+3

Klaus

[Tuba Guy]

Hay man it literally came to me in a dream I had one night in high school!
Just use the fingerings you use in the upper octave.
Was just about to post this when Klaus posted what many people post!
I don't understand why anyone would play these notes any differently then any other.
There just notes!
Sorry Klaus I think your doing it the hard way. Those aren’t very "natural' positions for those notes.
I realize this doesn’t mater much, I’ve even seen Gene Porkorny play compensating fingerings on a non compensating tuba and
Play a perfect Db 1234 (no 5th) but he's superhuman and I wouldn't ever advise doing anything the hard way.
Ultamately, Big Ben's answer is best.

Dude, Brian, I was in Santa Cruz last weekend...I actually passed you, but my friend who was driving wouldn't stop so I could say hi

[GC]

1-2-3 on an Eb horn should be a low A. If you're getting an Ab, you're lipping it way down. 1-4 (or sometimes 1-2-4) should give you an Ab on a 4-valve horn.

Even though my BBb is a 4-banger, I prefer to use privileged tones for low D to B. It has less resistance and can be lipped into tune more easily, though the tone suffers a bit. It's to each their own. If I had a 5-valve horn, I'd stick to traditional fingerings, though.

[ztuba]

I suck at Eb tuba playing cause I dont do much of it, but ... you can see the effects of the alternate fingerings on this one .. I don't hear in the playback any real difference between the false tones and the ones sitting on an actual partial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSCwZ9ffEpw" target="_blank

[Tuba Guy]

You were in front of a store (real descriptive, i know). I really don't know Santa Cruz that well, but my fraternity went on our retreat there.
And no worries..the past is the past. I know we'll see each other again at various Tuba christmases or Tuba days, it's all good. Btw, if you've got more gigs than you can handle, feel free to send a couple my way. I could use the money (trying to buy a contrabass trombone at some point in the near future)

[imperialbari]

Hay man it literally came to me in a dream I had one night in high school!
Just use the fingerings you use in the upper octave.
Was just about to post this when Klaus posted what many people post!
I don't understand why anyone would play these notes any differently then any other.
There just notes!
Sorry Klaus I think your doing it the hard way. Those aren’t very "natural' positions for those notes.
I realize this doesn’t mater much, I’ve even seen Gene Porkorny play compensating fingerings on a non compensating tuba and
Play a perfect Db 1234 (no 5th) but he's superhuman and I wouldn't ever advise doing anything the hard way.
Ultamately, Big Ben's answer is best.

Normally you aim for transparency in tubaism. Not this time. Referring to Mr. Pokorny doesn’t always work for mere mortals. The reply from Big Ben is a meta-reply with no specific operational advice.

Using ‘normal’ fingerings and hand slide positions in the range above the open pedal does work on trumpets and trombones when working from the Claude Gordon system of developing range.

Pressing the 4th valve on an Eb tuba puts that into BBb. If treating your Eb valves 1 through 3 like they had the appropriate length of slide for that virtual BBb tuba, then you are bound for intonation problems.

But then the original poster asked for advice on a 3 valve Eb instrument. For that situation my first reply relayed the most common approach.

Klaus

[Donn]

For that situation my first reply relayed the most common approach.

That's true, though I think Brian's way works for others here, too, if I understood what they were saying. I tried it. That is, I've tried 1-2 for low G on an Eb, instead of 2, and so forth. Pitches are flexible enough down there that perhaps any note can be produced with any valve combination, but for me, if there's a note that comes out naturally, it's the way you advocate, G = 2, so the G = 1-2 fingering requires some extra effort to raise the pitch.

That effort arguably may firm up the tone a little, so there might be an advantage to be had there ... or, for that matter, with G = 1, since the principle is the same. The problem for me was that since this same effort will make the tuba play out of tune up in its normal range, it's a little tricky to switch back and forth, so I think I will keep working on the commonly used valve combinations.