5V CC tubas - 5th Valve? Bookmark and Share

The bulk of the musical talk

5V CC tubas - 5th Valve?

Postby krogdor » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:39 pm

Hi, I'm new to the Tuba community. But i'm about to head up to FSU and my professor prefers me on a a 5V CC Tuba (any 2145 Meinl weston's or 189 Miraphones available?). And as soon as i do procure one of these said tubas, i intend on practicing my face off, since i played a BBb Tuba in school. Reading music will not be the problem for me, I just have no idea what the 5th valve does.

So what purpose does the 5th valve serve?

Thanks!
krogdor
 

Re: 5V CC tubas - 5th Valve?

Postby Z-Tuba Dude » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:41 pm

FSU? Which FSU?
User avatar
Z-Tuba Dude
5 valves
5 valves
 
Posts: 1212
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:08 am
Location: Lurking in the shadows of NYC!

Re: 5V CC tubas - 5th Valve?

Postby imperialbari » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:59 pm

The most common 5th valve set-ups on CC tubas are either a long whole step for an in tune low F or a long minor third for an in tune low E.

Klaus
User avatar
imperialbari
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 7461
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:47 am

Re: 5V CC tubas - 5th Valve?

Postby Alonsotuba » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:01 pm

krogdor wrote:Hi, I'm new to the Tuba community. But i'm about to head up to FSU and my professor prefers me on a a 5V CC Tuba (any 2145 Meinl weston's or 189 Miraphones available?). And as soon as i do procure one of these said tubas, i intend on practicing my face off, since i played a BBb Tuba in school. Reading music will not be the problem for me, I just have no idea what the 5th valve does.

So what purpose does the 5th valve serve?

Thanks!
From what I have heard, the 5th valve lowers the fundamental pitch of the horn by a whole step. It also serves to replace a few multiple-fingered combinations that normally have bad intonation, and it provides a full range of the instrument. For example, if you were to have a BBb tuba with a 5th valve, you would be able to play the B that's located a half step above the pedal Bb by holding down all 5 valves. This eliminates the need for lipping some notes.
B&S PT-6P
B&S PT-15
Alonsotuba
lurker
lurker
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 9:11 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: 5V CC tubas - 5th Valve?

Postby krogdor » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:18 pm

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:FSU? Which FSU?



Florida State University, sorry for the confusion
krogdor
 

Re: 5V CC tubas - 5th Valve?

Postby hbcrandy » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:22 pm

I have owned tubas, over the years, with both a flat whole step and a descending major third configuration. I prefer the flat whole step.

I use the flat whole step 5th valve extensively in the low register of the CC tuba. On a four valve CC tuba, the F, 4 ledger lines below the staff poses a problem. The 1,4 combination is sharp and, on most tubas, the 1,2,4 comination is flat. I play the F 4,5. The Eb below the F we just discussed is typically fingered 1,3,4 with a first valve slide pull. I play the Eb 3,4,5 to take advantage of the lower whole step of the 5th valve to bring the pitch down. Also, the half step above the fundamental pitch on any 4 valved tuba can only be weakly played by a priviledged tone (fake fingering) using valves 2,3. The fifth valve makes the pedal Db on the CC tuba possible with real fingerings. You have to experiment with your particular tuba to find the fingering that works best for the pedal Db. On my current York CC tuba, the Db is best fingered 1,3,4,5. on other tubas I have gotten the note with all five valves engaged.

I was brought up as a four valved tuba player. But, I am now a major advocate of the 5th valve. I have tried several 6 valved CC tubas. However, I find them to be "overkill". The 5 valved tuba will serve you well.
Randy Harrison
Instructor of Applied Brass Performance
Maryland Conservatory of Music
Bel Air and Havre de Grace, Maryland USA
http://www.musicismagic.com
User avatar
hbcrandy
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 633
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:28 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

Re: 5V CC tubas - 5th Valve?

Postby imperialbari » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:31 pm

I wasn’t aware that there were several 6 valve CC tubas out there to be played.

Klaus
User avatar
imperialbari
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 7461
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:47 am

Re: 5V CC tubas - 5th Valve?

Postby hbcrandy » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:56 pm

Dave Fedderly at Baltimore Brass Company has, over the years, had several through his shop. Within the last year there was a 6 valved Alexander CC tuba. He also, in the more distant past, had a 6 valved B&S CC tuba. I was not dazzled by either of the aforementioned. Plus, they weigh a great deal. I have also tried a few six valved CC tubas at Giardinelli's when they were on 48th Street in New York back in the mid 1970's.

If you have never visited Baltimore Brass Company, put it on your list of stops if you are coming to the East Coast. Dave runs a great shop with a large selection of new and used tubas.
Randy Harrison
Instructor of Applied Brass Performance
Maryland Conservatory of Music
Bel Air and Havre de Grace, Maryland USA
http://www.musicismagic.com
User avatar
hbcrandy
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 633
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:28 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

Re: 5V CC tubas - 5th Valve?

Postby Art Hovey » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Here is more than you ever wanted to know about the fifth valve:
http://www.galvanizedjazz.com/tuba/5thvalve.html
User avatar
Art Hovey
pro musician
pro musician
 
Posts: 1414
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 12:28 am
Location: Connecticut

Re: 5V CC tubas - 5th Valve?

Postby bloke » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:57 am

(any 2145 Meinl weston's or 189 Miraphones available?)


What an interesting (borderline "quirky?") pair of choices...

Most players could probably leave the 5th valve at home on their CC tubas were it not for the oft-requested pitch, "low F" - for which there is no "great" fingering combination on a 4-valve CC tuba. Yes, some CC tubas' have accessible #1 or #4 slides that can be pulled out far enough to effectively flatten the 1-4 combination, but that defines quite a bit of regularly-scheduled and semi-frantic (considering the length of the sudden pull) "work".

-----------------------------

The problem that I've seen with 6-valve (always 6-rotor) CC tubas is that the PARTICULAR (albeit rare) MODELS of tubas on which I've seen those configurations weren't particularly attractive tubas (to me). With my F tuba (bought new c. 27 years ago), I've found TONS of uses for the 6th valve (adjusted 1/2 step) that wouldn't necessarily occur to someone until that thing was sitting there offering itself up for experimentation regarding intonation and technical-passage problem-solving. I believe I would probably be delighted with a 6-rotor CC tuba that (with or without the 6th rotor) offered the specific playing characteristics that my extremely finicky self pursues/requires. just one quick example: A theme-of-annoyance through the "world" of CC tubas is the too-sharp 1-4 B natural and the too-flat 5-2-5 B natural...whereas a 6-4 B natural would be "perfect". :|

bloke "who would nearly always choose mashing a button over frantically yanking on a slide"
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 43673
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: 5V CC tubas - 5th Valve?

Postby tubeast » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:35 pm

On a 5valved tuba with the 5th being a "long whole step", replacing the usual 24 (slightly sharp) combinations with 235 usually works great. Add that to that single 14 combination and You get already THREE notes in the standard range of most music written for tuba.
Unfortunately, the note a half step above the fundamental might require a severe slide pull with all 5 valves engaged. (It does so on all out of three horns of three pitches that I´ve owned). This is the reason why I think the standard American setup (all valves operated by right hand) is the most practical for a 5-valver, because it enables the player to execute just that slide pull.

On 6-valved tubas (of which I own one), I´ll prefer the European "4+2"-setup. With both valves 5 and 6 being shortened half- and whole steps respectively, one can use those in a sense of "little", "medium" and "most" compensation of sharpness, applied to the standard valve combinations used for the right hand.
This way, the very familiar and fluently working fingering patterns of the right hand can be used throughout the range, which will faciliate speedy passages.
Too bad MY horn has original half and whole step 5th and 6th valves, which is NOT ideal.
Hans
F: Melton 46 S "Klemens Pröpper"
BBb:
1903 or earlier GLIER Helicon, customized Heinrich Hermuth MP
2009 WILLSON 6400 RZ5, PT50+, customized GEWA 52
MW HoJo 2011 FA, Tilz Spezial / PT50+
tubeast
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:59 pm
Location: Buers, Austria


Return to TubeNet

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 26 guests