Fun sousaphone video

[fenne1ca]

Not worth watching until 1:55, so just skip ahead.

[Steve Marcus]

Even in this performance, which contains more dynamic contrast and musical interest than similar sousaphone line features, fortissimo still = BLATT

The question is not "why." The primary purpose is to fill a stadium with noise to excite the crowd with the big horns.

But most of these sousaphone "carriers" (they'd have to earn the title "players") perhaps have not heard the majestic sound of a Warren Deck or other world-class tubist playing at full dynamic level. That sound is, ironically, much more earth-shaking than the blatting that these young people produce because there's much more of the fundamental being heard--and felt--than one can muster while making an ugly blatting sound.

It's not because they're playing SOUSAPHONES! We all know that a well-designed sousaphone in good condition can sound wonderful and musical. As someone who enjoys playing a fine sousaphone for certain genres of music as a respite from playing a concert tuba, these kinds of displays of noise are a shame. These pep rally elephants have no concept of the alternative, probably thanks to their squad/band leader.

This is the reason why I avoid YouTube titles such as "Battle of the Tubas" like the plague.

Unnecessary rant concluded.

[TUbajohn20J]

Go sousaphones!!

[Arkietuba]

Even in this performance, which contains more dynamic contrast and musical interest than similar sousaphone line features, fortissimo still = BLATT

The question is not "why." The primary purpose is to fill a stadium with noise to excite the crowd with the big horns.

But most of these sousaphone "carriers" (they'd have to earn the title "players") perhaps have not heard the majestic sound of a Warren Deck or other world-class tubist playing at full dynamic level. That sound is, ironically, much more earth-shaking than the blatting that these young people produce because there's much more of the fundamental being heard--and felt--than one can muster while making an ugly blatting sound.

It's not because they're playing SOUSAPHONES! We all know that a well-designed sousaphone in good condition can sound wonderful and musical. As someone who enjoys playing a fine sousaphone for certain genres of music as a respite from playing a concert tuba, these kinds of displays of noise are a shame. These pep rally elephants have no concept of the alternative, probably thanks to their squad/band leader.

This is the reason why I avoid YouTube titles such as "Battle of the Tubas" like the plague.

Unnecessary rant concluded.

Marching band does not equal orchestra...you play differently in those environments and they require a different attitude. I'm not saying you should blast your head off like some sections do but VSU always puts out a good full sound. If you compare them to any other HBCU sousa section you can hear much more musicianship from them (and UAPB's section from 2008 as well). They have videos where they play soft and don't get about "mf". These colleges have great tuba players. There are videos on youtube of some tuba recitals from HBCU's and they are on par with non-HBCU tuba studio recitals.

You're generalizing a group of tuba players from your perception of what you think is the "right" way to play. If everyone in the world played like everyone else, why would we want to listen to different people/groups? You are most certainly entitled to your opinion but don't put these guys on "blast" (hahaha...get it?) just because you don't like their playing. Plenty people do like their playing and most importantly, the fans love it. Isn't that why the marching band is there, to entertain?

If you wanna hear a good (loud) tuba section that doesn't blatt, go see some of UAPB's videos from 2008. There isn't any of the section by it self, just full band stuff. They won section of the year in their band, which is saying something. I know their section leaders too...they would find you're assertions highly offensive. They work their butt off to put on a good show and sound great.

[TUbajohn20J]

Well said..These students at HBCU's know the difference between concert playing and marching band playing trust me..My section even has a couple jams we do in the stands and such. True, many people do hate that style of playing..but they don't realize it's not Mozart that these sections are playing..its tuba fanfares! supposed to be loud!..gets the crowd going at games and such. And yes Pine Bluff section is a beast, I know a couple of those boys

[Arkietuba]

Agreed...


Oh, and just to clarify (since I know how people can read too much into something...just trying to cover my arse):
I'm wasn't trying say Steve Marcus is "wrong" since he's a pro and knows his stuff...but I think that his view on this subject is very jaded. I know he's not alone with that view since we've had similar discussions in years past over HBCU sousa sections and even rap music on this board (I've been here for almost 5 years)...I'll stay outta that discussion for the time being...lol I think it's very ignorant to cast "that" view on fellow tuba players. They are doing what they love, what the fans love and isn't that more important than not EVER blatting a note?

I'm a tuba performance major and I play differently in wind ensemble/orchestra than I do in marching band. I can play the same way the guys at VSU or NSU or UAPB can play...does that make me a bad player? Does that mean I'm spitting in the face of Arnold Jacobs or Warren Deck or any great tuba player? There is more than 1 way to play sousaphone and some people do take it too far, but come on...

[Steve Marcus]

This was a rare instance where I chose to post on TubeNet what is admittedly a "opinion" rather than an irrefutable, documented fact. I should have expected responses that were just as vehemently in favor of the current practice of sousaphone lines in marching bands as mine was against the "blatting" sound. Just to clarify, that particular sound quality is my ONLY objection to what is heard from sousaphones today in marching bands. There are some innovative and wonderful arrangements for the bass line in full band charts and, as this video illustrates, some "sousaphone ensemble" arrangements with full harmony and counterpoint that work very well!

Marching band does not equal orchestra...you play differently in those environments and they require a different attitude. I'm not saying you should blast your head off like some sections

Hasn't this sousaphone blatting become a more prominent element of the marching band sound in the last 10-20 years? I don't recall hearing it as much in years past. I'm an old fart who went to high school and college in the '70s. While the basses were always directed to play with full force, "bark" did not equal "blatt." Think of, for lack of a more universally established term (sorry, animal rights advocates), the "dogfight" in Sousa marches. These are often great lines for the tubas to play. Even though they should rise above the rest of the band, they sound so much better with a full, pure tone than with a blatting sound.

Perhaps it's YouTube and other media that have enabled access to many more bands than one would have been able to hear in previous decades; thus the exposure to bands who blatt.

The responses to my so-called "rant" have been constructive and non-berating nor offensive. Thank you for your viewpoints.

[fenne1ca]

Think of, for lack of a more universally established term (sorry, animal rights advocates), the "dogfight" in Sousa marches.

I don't believe this is a term that should offend animal rights advocates. This term is borrowed from air combat lingo, as far as I know. Even if it's not, it's something you can say to avoid an argument!

[Arkietuba]

This was a rare instance where I chose to post on TubeNet what is admittedly a "opinion" rather than an irrefutable, documented fact. I should have expected responses that were just as vehemently in favor of the current practice of sousaphone lines in marching bands as mine was against the "blatting" sound. Just to clarify, that particular sound quality is my ONLY objection to what is heard from sousaphones today in marching bands. There are some innovative and wonderful arrangements for the bass line in full band charts and, as this video illustrates, some "sousaphone ensemble" arrangements with full harmony and counterpoint that work very well!

Marching band does not equal orchestra...you play differently in those environments and they require a different attitude. I'm not saying you should blast your head off like some sections

Hasn't this sousaphone blatting become a more prominent element of the marching band sound in the last 10-20 years? I don't recall hearing it as much in years past. I'm an old fart who went to high school and college in the '70s. While the basses were always directed to play with full force, "bark" did not equal "blatt." Think of, for lack of a more universally established term (sorry, animal rights advocates), the "dogfight" in Sousa marches. These are often great lines for the tubas to play. Even though they should rise above the rest of the band, they sound so much better with a full, pure tone than with a blatting sound.

Perhaps it's YouTube and other media that have enabled access to many more bands than one would have been able to hear in previous decades; thus the exposure to bands who blatt.

The responses to my so-called "rant" have been constructive and non-berating nor offensive. Thank you for your viewpoints.

Well said!

I agree with you to an extent. There are some tuba sections that take this kind of stuff way too far and they sound like a hot mess. However, VSU does what they do very well and they have added a lot of musicality and have changed the image that tubas have to the fans as a slow/lumbering instrument. There are people that go to the games, not for the football, not for the band, but to hear these tuba sectons. They have built a tradition of playing that way and have recieved much acclaim for it. VSU isn't all about playing loud. Watch some of their other videos and they can play softly and sound awesome. They go for dynamic contrast as much as blowing their opponents away with sound.

I'm not too far removed from high school ('00-'04) and I also was in an inner-city band with an equal mix of race/ethnicity so my view is different than a lot of the folks on here, but we played stuff like that and hip-hop stuff in the stands since that's what our audience wanted. Now, we did "traditional" stuff on the field so we weren't all about keeping it crunk. Anyways, we were told by 1 of our directors, a graduate from a reputible tuba studio at another Arkansas university (not my current college), to play so loud that we "made babies cry" and "pinned people's ears to the wall". We did that but we also played softly when we were supposed to. We played well and the judges at every contest we went to always went out of their way to say that we had one of the best tuba sections they have heard. We must have been doing something right if the judges liked us...lol

You say blatt...I say it's playing with some testicular fortitude. I do agree there is a thin line and that a lot of groups cross that line. However, I dissagree that VSU is one of those. They have their moments where they do but doesn't every section?

[b.williams]

LOL! What a fun video!! I wonder if we could put together an old fart (50+) sousaphone section to do battle with these young pups?

[TUbajohn20J]

LOL! What a fun video!! I wonder if we could put together an old fart (50+) sousaphone section to do battle with these young pups?

I'm ready just need a time and place!

[Arkietuba]

LOL! What a fun video!! I wonder if we could put together an old fart (50+) sousaphone section to do battle with these young pups?

Florida A&M University had a section of 40+ last season. I would love to seem them go head to head with VSU's Horsepower.

[Tubaryan12]

The most important sentence in this entire thread:

They are doing what they love, what the fans love and isn't that more important than not EVER blatting a note?

Making the crowd cheer is what they are there for. I think they've done their job very well. I'm lucky to have experienced this firsthand. I wish all tuba player could. The loudest cheers I get now is at our children's concert when I lift up my horn....but those cheers are only because it's big......not because of what comes out of it.

[Arkietuba]

Yeah, you gotta play to your audience. I mean, if the audience would rather hear the cleanest articulation/purest tone/perfect intonation...wouldn't they go hear Alan Baer or Velvet Brown or someone like that? haha They want to hear loud/exciting playing and that's what these cats do best.

Here in AR we have to play to our audience...drunken frat guys/rednecks, old alumni from 50+ years ago and people like me. We play a little bit of everything and even some of HBCU-style stuff (though not quite like UAPB would play it..haha). Our fans love us, the other schools in our conference loves us more than their bands too...haha

When we have our "Family Concert" in our Symphony Orchestra, the kids all want to hear me play a low note as loud as possible...and they LOVE it. Their parents even want that! You can't take tuba playing TOO seriously or you'll end up like a lead trumpet player....not a good thing!

[LCTuba89]

Teh reason why they have a big full sound is because they're using Conn 20K. 6/4 size sousas I believe.

[averagejoe]

I don't really like the style of play from any of the groups in that video. Steve Marcus is right on the money. I will take it a step further. Gene Pokorny or Warren Deck could play any of those tunes in a way that would rock the audiences world. The key is a huge fat centered tone that is powerful and majestic while feeling all encompassing. The guys in that video were simply playing loud at whatever cost. I think it takes more balls to make a huge grand round sound than to make a barky fart fest. If they are having fun, fine. If you have a taste for this stuff, I can't stop you. But I refuse to say that what they did in that video was good music.
My apologies, but this kind of playing touches a nerve with me. I absolutely hate the stereotype that tubas sound like farts. I think that it matters how we play, because we are representing our instrument and our art form.

[SousaSaver]

Part of getting a bigger sound out of your Sousaphone section is to get them to play in tune. This sounds crazy to some, but the more in tune the group is, the louder and more powerful the group will be without "blatting" as Steve put it.

Marching band is not orchestra, but one can learn from the other and benefit from it.