Question on American Shank & Europen Shank

[choisy]

What is the difference of American Shank and European Shank on Tuba mp ?

which shank recommand on on Yamaha 821 Roger Bobo model F tuba ?

[WakinAZ]

Matt Walters of Dillon Music wrote the best explanation I've see so far:

In the world of tuba mouthpieces, it seems there are five general shank sizes and that, can lead to confusion. The Standard American and European Shank sizes, followed by the Large Shank, are the most common sizes that fit modern production tubas. From smallest to largest, we offer the following information to shed a little light on the subject.

EUROPEAN SHANK: This is an increasingly popular shank size of about .530" diameter at the small end of the shank. It is found in mouthpieces like the JK Exclusive, Perantucci, Laskey "E" shank, and of course our wonderful Sheridan Series of mouthpieces. Most every European and American tuba built these days, will accept this shank size.

STANDARD AMERICAN: The reference point for this size of about .520" at the small end of the shank. A good example would be the Bach, and Conn Helleberg tuba mouthpieces. This is the most common size here in the United States. In the Dennis Wick line, you need to make sure it has the "L" in the model number to get this standard size. Our regular size shank Dillon Mouthpieces are also of this size. Besides American built horns, many European horns like Miraphone can use this size.

LARGE SHANK: This is a larger size that measures about .550" diameter at the small end of the shank. It works well on the larger European tubas. Especially horns with large diameter leadpipes like the "York" copies and most Alexander model 163 CC tubas. This is the size of our Dillon Music "L" shank mouthpiece and the new Wick 2XL.

SMALL EUROPEAN: Having a diameter of .490" at small end of shank, this size is offered by Dennis Wick in the sizes 1 through 5. Just make sure you order the one without the "L" in the model number. This size is most commonly used on old Besson tubas and old American Eb tubas. I hear this referred to as the Eb tuba size. Some old German, etc. 3/4 size BBb tubas have also shown up with that receiver size. If you are having trouble figuring out what small size shank your old tuba needs, it is about the same size as a large shank trombone mouthpiece. Borrow one from a trombonist and see for yourself. You can order a Denis Wick mouthpiece, or to have a wider variety of mouthpieces to choose from, consider replacing the receiver for about the price of a mouthpiece.

KAISER SHANK: With a measurement of about .585" in diameter at the small end of the shank, this truly is a "Kaiser" size. It fits the largest Alexander model 164, a few ‘one off’ model 163's, and some original York receivers we've come across. Anyone needing this size shank will need to get a custom built mouthpiece, or have an adapter made.

source: http://www.angus1.com/ssh/shank.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank

...hope this helps!!

[skeath]

Short answer: Euro mouthpieces will fit in an American receiver; they don't go in as far as normal. American mouthpieces will sometimes fit in a Euro receiver (far in), but will often require tape wrapping, or an adapter. Dillon Music sells such an adapter.

The Yamaha F tubas have an American receiver.

[Doug Elliott]

I use slightly different measurements, based on the receivers and mouthpieces I have measured over the years. All of these are standard shank sizes that I offer. They're not all the same amount of taper.

.490 end is British
.520 end is American
.530 end my M (Medium or Mirafone) shank (that Dillon's calls "European")
.540 end is my European
.550 end is my Hirsbrunner
.570 end is my Alexander
.600 end is my Alex+, for older Alexanders with the huge receiver.

[Dan Schultz]

Matt Walters of Dillon Music wrote the best explanation I've see so far:

Thanks so much for re-posting Matt's synopsis of MP shanks. I've been going crazy working with a couple of Perantucci mouthpieces I bought recently. I've been trying to compare the now-extinct Kelly KT-50 with a REAL Perantucci PT-50 MP and have been getting dramatically different results even though the cups measure the same. I've discovered that the troubles I'm having with the REAL PT-50 and the PT-48X probably lies in the fact that the shank is slightly larger... causing the MP to insert into the receiver about 1/4" less than the Kelly version. I'm a firm believer that 'the gap' can have a tremendous impact on the performance of a horn and mouthpiece combination. I plan to alter the two Perantucci before I make any further efforts at comparing them to what I know already works.

[Peach]

Short answer: Euro mouthpieces will fit in an American receiver; they don't go in as far as normal. American mouthpieces will sometimes fit in a Euro receiver (far in), but will often require tape wrapping, or an adapter. Dillon Music sells such an adapter.

The Yamaha F tubas have an American receiver.

I'm sure you're right but I'm amazed you can get a shim that small - US to Euro?

[Dan Schultz]

Don'tcha just wish the manufacturers would quick screwing around with shank sizes, standardize, and get their tolerances under control? I've been trying to evaluate and compare a Kelly KT-50, a Perantucci PT-50, a Perantucci PT-48X, and a Stofer-Geib. They ALL fit the receiver on my Marzan to different depths... like up to a difference of 1/4" insertion. Oddly enough, the Kelly came closest to eliminating 'the gap' and all the others inserted waaaay short. I machined the shanks on all the others to match the Kelly.

Matt Walters 'nailed it' when he devised the adjustable gap receiver. It's a shame that the MP manufacturers (and receivers) aren't paying attention! How can anyone even begin to select which mouthpiece is best for them without first narrowing down some of the variables?