Geography influencing shipping costs

[imperialbari]

Auctions often refer to shipping prices for the 48 continental states. Probably because these have a number of distribution systems pretty much covering all of their areas. Hawaii calling for airfreight in dealings with any degree of spontaneity is kind of obvious.

I have a couple of non-brass connections in Anchorage, so I have checked upon some aspects of AK infrastructure. It appears like I have suffered from one major illusion: that there was a coastal highway connecting Washington state and Alaska. But I didn’t see it when looking at Google Earth in the Juneau area. Considering the coast to coast trucking patterns in the lower 48 I wouldn’t have been surprised by trucking routes to AK also. But do they exist at all?

Klaus

[Ace]

This does not answer your question, but your post about shipments to Alaska reminds me of a personal situation a few years ago. A Coast Guardsman stationed in a fairly remote part of Alaska purchased a tuba from me. I shipped it on FedEx. Three weeks pass and the purchaser e-mails me almost everyday asking if I could pressure FedEx to speed up delivery. A severe winter blizzard had made roadways impassable for FedEx trucks, with no road-opening date projected. FedEx then contracted with USPS to deliver the package. It finally got to the recipient, and FedEx notified us there would be no shipping charges.

[sloan]

Auctions often refer to shipping prices for the 48 continental states. Probably because these have a number of distribution systems pretty much covering all of their areas. Hawaii calling for airfreight in dealings with any degree of spontaneity is kind of obvious.

I have a couple of non-brass connections in Anchorage, so I have checked upon some aspects of AK infrastructure. It appears like I have suffered from one major illusion: that there was a coastal highway connecting Washington state and Alaska. But I didn’t see it when looking at Google Earth in the Juneau area. Considering the coast to coast trucking patterns in the lower 48 I wouldn’t have been surprised by trucking routes to AK also. But do they exist at all?

Klaus

There is a tiny piece of an Alaskan State Highway on a dock in Seattle - drive down that dock onto a ferry, and get off in Alaska.

Driving from Alaska to the lower 48 would be....time consuming and difficult.

As for Google Earth - try plotting a driving trip from Paris to New York. No, really - try it and see what directions you get!

[The Big Ben]

There is a tiny piece of an Alaskan State Highway on a dock in Seattle - drive down that dock onto a ferry, and get off in Alaska.

To be picky, the dock is now in Bellingham, WA- about two hours north of Seattle.

Driving from Alaska to the lower 48 would be....time consuming and difficult.

Indeed. Someday, I'm going to give the Alaska Highway a try. Not really bad in the summer, though. A friend did it in a motorhome a couple of years ago.. The winter is a whole 'nother question.

[The Big Ben]

Considering the coast to coast trucking patterns in the lower 48 I wouldn’t have been surprised by trucking routes to AK also. But do they exist at all?

There are two practical ways to get things in and out of Alaska: air and sea.

Barges leave Seattle weekly loaded with containers of everything. I think one of the operations has a ship which uses drive on/drive off trailers. So, the goods go by truck when they get there. I think it is called 'multimode transport'.

[sloan]

There is a tiny piece of an Alaskan State Highway on a dock in Seattle - drive down that dock onto a ferry, and get off in Alaska.

To be picky, the dock is now in Bellingham, WA- about two hours north of Seattle.

Really? When did they move it? (perhaps there are two?)

It's been awhile since I lived in Seattle - it was always a bit of a shock to see the Alaskan State Highway sign. I seem to recall it being not too far from the local island ferries.

[bill]

Klaus, in speaking to Europeans, I have had difficulty expressing just how large the United States' land mass is. Canada is even larger, btw. To give some small example of the size, I, while living in Atlanta, was asked to go to Anchorage, Alaska, for a week. I flew, each direction, in two "legs" with less than 50 minutes between each leg in either direction. The total flight time was 23½ hours. I do not know the mileage but I was able to fly first class, making the almost twelve hours of flying in each direction, somewhat bearable. Now, what I did was fly diagonally across the continent so the only longer trip would have started in Miami, I suppose. But, similarly, when I lived in Bellingham, WA., I had to drive my son from Bellingham to Miami (he was carrying his three tubas to college) and the trip took 5 hard days' driving, despite the fact he is a "lead foot" and was going 80 mph for much of the way. I flew back and that trip, to Seattle, was only about 6 hours. This Continent is rather large.

Just a humorous note, from my days in High School (1954-1958) living near San Diego, one airline advertised "Fly San Diego to Honolulu non-stop!" I certainly hope they were able to accomplish that. And, while living in Atlanta, during the 1996 Olympics, people living in New Mexico, applying for tickets for the events, in Atlanta, were re-routed to the "Foreign Requests" file and handled as non-United States correspondence.

Unless you have spent some time on the roads on the continent, grasping the size of it is difficult.

[TUBAD83]

Considering the coast to coast trucking patterns in the lower 48 I wouldn’t have been surprised by trucking routes to AK also. But do they exist at all?

There are two practical ways to get things in and out of Alaska: air and sea.

Barges leave Seattle weekly loaded with containers of everything. I think one of the operations has a ship which uses drive on/drive off trailers. So, the goods go by truck when they get there. I think it is called 'multimode transport'.

A couple of years ago I shipped a tuba to Anchorage via FedEx Ground. They shipped it by truck to Seattle then put on a plane to Anchorage (something they do NOT advertise). The tuba arrived in Anchorage in 6 days and it was undamaged--the new owner was very happy (and I was very thankful).

[TUBAD83]

Speaking of size...

Alaskans like to point out that we could [further?] embarrass Texas by dividing Alaska in half to make Texas the third largest state.

DG

Well now not to be a smartass, BUT even though Alaska is much larger than Texas, the vast majority of Alaska is uninhabitable--the reverse is true of Texas. Alot of the small villages in AK is accessible only by plane 4-5 months out of the year. So please allow me to humbly proclaim:

TEXAS--THE LARGEST HABITABLE STATE IN THE UNION!

JJ

[The Big Ben]

TEXAS--THE LARGEST HABITABLE STATE IN THE UNION!

I suspect that the Yupik, Inuit, Athabaskan, Tlingit, etc., would have quite a different perspective. In fact, even some non-Native folks have learned to survive handily in our wildernesses [You'll just have to pretend that the smiley is winking. ]

I always say:

"Alaska is the place where the kids who have the box for 'Does not play well with others' checked on their kindergarten report cards go when they grow up."

Some people just need a little bit more room.

[imperialbari]

Very interesting replies!

I have some interest in very small island communities. Also in orthophotos. Before the upcoming of Google Earth Denmark had a nationwide photo database, which however was much more cumbersome to handle than GE. Those photos and their current updates now form the basis for the GE coverage of Denmark.

One interesting matter is to look for airstrips on islands. Many small Danish islands have a grass runway, but then we have a landscape of glacial leftovers. Mountainous islands often are worse of. Juneau has an airfield very close to downtown. Its predecessor as capital, Sitka, has had to be very inventive to get an airstrip, which involves 3 islets.

Anchorage, which apparently was not founded on the basis of natural resources, but because of railway construction, has a pretty good coverage of airfields for its size. I counted 4 airfields, even if one is small with only one runway. Without checking I guess two airfields are for military purposes.

In Denmark we have mixed civilian and military airfields, which I find odd, as I don’t believe military planning ever will accept being a part of a civilian schedule. At least two airfields were the direct consequences of WWII. Odense on Funen had one founded by the Germans. Vagar, one of the Faroes, had its airstrip founded by the British in a very dangerous mountain area with water at both ends of the strip. Crosswinds being very common and resulting in wild turbulences. I have flown to and from Vagar 8 times. I didn’t like seeing the fuselage of a passenger plane lying next to the runway when we took off, but it actually was the result of successful rescue. An icy day the pilots could not stop the plane, so they ran it up a slope before it ended in the water. No life lost.

This is a bit of a stray, but still music and tuba related. Mining rushes like those in Alaska always call for musical entertainment. But when does the tuba enter the scene? Isn’t there a close correlation with military taking control over areas, when they become strategically important?

Klaus

[pgym]

TEXAS--THE LARGEST HABITABLE STATE IN THE UNION!

Though apparently only by people who don't have the smarts to know better, for, as 36th President and native TX son, Lyndon Baines Johnson, remarked (on more than one occasion) ...

"If I owned Hell and Texas, in the summer, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas."

[imperialbari]

[TUBAD83]

TEXAS--THE LARGEST HABITABLE STATE IN THE UNION!

Though apparently only by people who don't have the smarts to know better, for, as 36th President and native TX son, Lyndon Baines Johnson, remarked (on more than one occasion) ...

"If I owned Hell and Texas, in the summer, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas."

Well yes it does get rather warm down here in the summer BUT we have an invention down here that we call air condition (aka AC). We have it in our homes, where we work, play (Houston is home to the world's FIRST air conditioned domed stadium), and shop. Hell, we even have it in our pickups and cars! When you have 24+ million people living here, definitely gotta keep em cooled down! So come on down get ya some--plenty for everybody

JJ

[sloan]

TEXAS--THE LARGEST HABITABLE STATE IN THE UNION!

Though apparently only by people who don't have the smarts to know better, for, as 36th President and native TX son, Lyndon Baines Johnson, remarked (on more than one occasion) ...

"If I owned Hell and Texas, in the summer, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas."

Well yes it does get rather warm down here in the summer BUT we have an invention down here that we call air condition (aka AC). We have it in our homes, where we work, play (Houston is home to the world's FIRST air conditioned domed stadium), and shop. Hell, we even have it in our pickups and cars! When you have 24+ million people living here, definitely gotta keep em cooled down! So come on down get ya some--plenty for everybody

JJ

Oh yes...Texas A/C. Here's a hint: when it's 110F in the shade, do NOT set your A/C thermostat to 64F. The Dallas Convention Center used to do that. They had an "air wall" entry way - walking through that door (in either direction) was a shock. It got so that you needed to wear long sleeves and a jacket to attend meetings there - which looked pretty damn silly when you walked out the door!

Here in the Heart of Dixie, we keep our home A/C set at 80F. Remember - it ain't the heat, it's the humidity!

[Rick Denney]

Auctions often refer to shipping prices for the 48 continental states. Probably because these have a number of distribution systems pretty much covering all of their areas. Hawaii calling for airfreight in dealings with any degree of spontaneity is kind of obvious.

I have a couple of non-brass connections in Anchorage, so I have checked upon some aspects of AK infrastructure. It appears like I have suffered from one major illusion: that there was a coastal highway connecting Washington state and Alaska. But I didn’t see it when looking at Google Earth in the Juneau area. Considering the coast to coast trucking patterns in the lower 48 I wouldn’t have been surprised by trucking routes to AK also. But do they exist at all?

Klaus

The only highway connection from the "lower 48" to Alaska is the Alaska Highway, which is well inland. The Alaska Highway enters Alaska at its eastern side well north of Anchorage. There is no coastal highway and the only connection to southeast Alaskan cities, either from Canada or from the rest of Alaska, is by water or air. Thus, the famed "Alaska Marine Highway", which is a ferry and passenger service along southeast Alaska. Here's a picture of the part of it that extends north of Juneau:



It takes a LONG time to drive the Alaska Highway. Folks I know who drive their motorhomes there (the ultimate motorhome trip for Americans) allow a week or two to go from the Canadian border to Tok. The road is subject to considerable frost-heave and it's rough. So is the Glenn Highway from Glenallen to Anchorage. I've driven it in a motorhome and it felt like an E-ticket ride at Disneyland. If I was to drive my motorhome from Virginia to Anchorage and back, I would have to allow five weeks just for driving, with no sightseeing.

If you have seen the coastal mountains and their various glaciers in that part of Alaska, you would understand. Here's a picture from the top of one of those mountains looking down on Juneau:



You just don't go over the Alaska mountains except in an airplane.

Thus, your shipping options into Anchorage are probably either by ship or by air. I suspect a lot of bulk shipping to Alaska is done by container, which can be attached to a trailer and hauled by a truck once arriving on shore.

On the subject of Alaska versus Texas, I will say this: Texas is big. Fold it over its eastern border, and El Paso will fall into the Atlantic. Fold it over its western border and Port Arthur will fall into the Pacific. But I'll recount the response I received from my boss at the City of San Antonio when the conversation turned to this topic. He had moved to San Antonio from Anchorage two years previously, and he said the running joke in Alaska was that they would divide Alaska into two states, so that Texas could be the third-largest.

Alaska is as inhospitable in the winter as Texas is in the summer, and residents of each must hibernate for (different) parts of the year. But it's a heck of a lot easier to build highways in Texas.

Rick "who WILL drive the Alaska Highway someday" Denney

[imperialbari]

I assume there are direct ferries from Seattle or Bellingham to Anchorage. How many hours do they take to sail each way?

Norway has a coastal ferry line from the Russian border almost down their West coast. I once looked at their schedule and was impressed by the sped they did from Tronhjem to Bergen. 2 hours only. But I was wrong the tour was 26 hours as I hadn’t noticed the name of the day shifting.

If there are lines doing island hopping all the way up to Anchorage I guess patience is a good personality trait for the passengers to have.

Klaus

PS: The photo in my previous post was pilfered as a holiday shot from an online paper today. Couldn’t avoid singing Roll out the Highway.

[Rick Denney]

Nice photos, Rick. It would appear that the second was taken at the tram on top of Mt. Roberts. Our house is located on the extreme left of your photo where the tram cables intersect the border of the photo.

Yeah--whatever that mountain is that is at the top of the tourist cable car.

We did drive around the neighborhoods on the other side of the bridge to see what it was like. Juneau is a nice little town, but it's a little overwhelmed by the Cruise Ship Effect.

Here are some more pictures, many from that area, if you are interested:

http://www.rickdenney.com/alaska.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank

I have not posted any of my pictures from our most recent trip. Most of the film photography I did on that trip was ruined by airport X-rays, and I just didn't do that much digital work. These images were all made on film on a previous trip, when I was there to teach a class (two days in Anchorage, and then a weekend and two more days in Juneau).

My father-in-law did two tours with the FAA in Fairbanks, and was there during statehood and again when my wife was little. He goes back every two or three years, and likes to have company, so I'm sure we'll be back again before too much more time goes by. The last time, we flew to Anchorage and then rented a motorhome--a great way to see Alaska. We did the Fairbanks-Prince William Sound-Anchorage loop, but next time we'll go southwest to the Katmai Peninsula.

Rick "who'd like to spend a month there with a large-format camera" Denney

[imperialbari]

How to go from Skagway to Anchorage? Is all freight put on trucks?

Klaus

[Rick Denney]

How to go from Skagway to Anchorage? Is all freight put on trucks?

Klaus

No, there's no highway to Skagway from any direction.

You don't go from Skagway to Anchorage, except by air. You can take the Marine Highway ferry across to southwest Alaska from southeast Alaska, but that ferry runs only rarely as I understand it, and I don't remember the end points. If you want to go to Anchorage, get on a plane. All freight comes from other places, so there's no need for freight to go from Skagway to Anchorage. Both get their freight directly from the lower 48 (or wherever). That's one reason prices are so high in Alaska.

I think the Marine Highway gets as close as Whittier to Anchorage, but only from a couple of spots in the southeast. I couldn't find any schedule for getting from Bellingham to Whittier. And even then, you have to drive over the coastal mountains to get to Anchorage. But what a drive!

Alaska does export stuff, but all that goes directly south, too. Mostly in oil tankers, from Valdez at the southern terminus of the Alaska Pipeline.

The main industry along the Inside Passage is tourism, and there are a number of cruise lines that make that run. In fact, you can see a large cruise ship at the dock in my photo of Juneau. During the weekend we were there, four or five of those ships came through. The town was crowded when they were there, and quite peaceful when they weren't.

Rick "don't buy Russian gold jewelry on the tourist strip across from the cruise-line dock in Juneau" Denney