Who made Selmer Bundy Eb sousaphones?

[imperialbari]

Eb sousaphones ran out of general fashion shortly after WWII. Somebody said that the postwar Conn 26K/28k’s were made only as long as stocked parts allowed.

Working with my galleries I just came by a Selmer Bundy Eb sousaphone. Was this model made before or during the Selmer/Bach cooperation? Who made this model, as the engraving indicates Selmer as the distributor?

The valve set clearly has the American wrap. The fake shoulder piping has the same design as withe 26K/28K, but Conn hardly is the maker, as the overall diameters are smaller tan with the conn models.

Klaus

[Sam Gnagey]

Could it have been made by B & M (now Nirschl)? I acquired a BBb tuba several years that is identical to the large 4-valve York Master but it bears the Bundy inscription on the bell.

[sloan]

Perhaps this will help:
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Equipment/Selmer.html

[imperialbari]

Could it have been made by B & M (now Nirschl)? I acquired a BBb tuba several years that is identical to the large 4-valve York Master but it bears the Bundy inscription on the bell.

I see no immediate resemblance to details between this one and my own YM BBb by B&M. But I won’t dismiss the idea of B&M. My sample is of the 0.750" bore variant, which may not have been a pro level instrument, but still has way better specs than the 3 valve small bore York Master instruments clearly intended for students.

Maybe a couple of years ago I asked who made sousaphones for Getzen, never a signature instrument for that company. bloke suggested B&M, which appeared very likely seen from the ferrules and the very basic engraving (3 shots added at the bottom).

Comparing especially the engravings and the ferrules displays differences, even if I am fully aware that Selmer could have done the engraving themselves. Despite the diversified production facilities of Selmer-US, the engraving still limits the company to being the distributor in this case.

Klaus

[DavidK]

I believe that Buescher instruments were marketed or rebranded as Bundy at one time, maybe 1950's ??? The Elkhart location was a hotbed of brass manufacturing!
We have a Bundy Alto sax in the family and the local repair guru told us that the valve configuration, valve pad guard cages and age indcated that it was actually a very solid and well made Buescher with Bundy engraving. A much better horn than the "Student" branding would have you believe.
I've done no research to verify this claim. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! YMMV.

Hope this helps

[Dan Schultz]

That sousa appears to be sporting a European valve section.... very similar to the ones that came out of Bohm & Meinl (aka Marzan and some of the Meinl and Amati tubas). I don't think that horn was made in Elkhart... only branded and reboxed there. I don't think that's a Buescher valve section.

[Lee Stofer]

I would need to see more details of the Eb sous to know for sure, but if the top caps do not have felt inserts on top, I'd tend to think that it is a Conn. Conn also made Eb sousas that had a smaller body than the 26/28K's at one time. It is interesting that it looks like a Yamaha neck in it. I have a Bundy BBb sousaphone in the loft, as well as a Buescher Aristocrat sousa, that both have Conn body parts, but different-looking top caps, finger buttons and bottom caps. Why not make horns for your competitor, as long as you're making money on them, too?

The Getzen sousaphone is a Boehm & Meinl, as were the Canadian Brass/G-50 tubas. Getzen has a very nice factory where they make trumpets and trombone, but alas no tubas - ditto for Blessing. Blessing at one time imported stencil Amati sousaphones.

Buescher was in-and-out of business about three times, finally being bought by Selmer around 1950. The Selmer sousaphones do not bear any resemblance to the old Buescher sousaphones. The metal Selmer sousas all seem to have Conn branches and bells, and ferrules of the same style as the 14K and Pan American sousas.

[imperialbari]

I like Lee’s suggestion of Conn, as this instruments fits two Conn traits, that I have noted:

The Eb-only conical loop under the main tuning slide (which is never seen on full-circle Eb’s from other makers).

The height of the bell when laid flat on the flare is a con(n)stant, because that cuts down on the case variants in need to be stocked. All con sousaphones fit in cases with similar “chimneys” attached to the lid. That implies that the straight-axis part of the bell throat is longer on this sousaphone than on my 26K & 28K, because these have a fatter throat. My much fatter throated 40K has no straight axis-portion, as the throat starts bending right after the attachment ring, where throat and flare meet.

I only have two more photos of the Eb in question. they ma not be very significant.

Klaus

[Dan Schultz]

I would need to see more details of the Eb sous to know for sure, but if the top caps do not have felt inserts on top, I'd tend to think that it is a Conn. ....

I was basing my opinion on the premise that my weary eyes seem to think there are white felt rings in the top caps... very much like Bohm & Meinl and Amati valve sets.

I too would like to see a better image of the valves before passing any further judgement.