Are Alexander Tubas Out of Fashion?

[jonesbrass]

Well, they don't make a 4P/1R CC tuba, so they're not cool right now.

Don't forget the silver plate and york-style leadpipe (straight in) . . .

[J.c. Sherman]

I owned Chester Roberts Alex from 1976-1980. It was a HUGE hybrid, by that I mean you could change the main tuning slide and 4th valve slide and change it between BBb and CC. What a sound!!! It actually was better in tune as a BBb. I sold it to Don Harry in 1980. I bought it from Paul Destito who bought it from Peter Popiel who bought it from Rudy Emilson who bought it from Roberts. FWIW, My Mom bought it for me for $800.00 with a case.

Alex's are far superior in sound to anything I have ever heard. Hands down.

My Alma Mater also had an Alex with the crook (now missing) and was - indeed - better in tune as a BBb; but it was awesome in both keys (the slide was conical and very well made!).

J.c.S.

[eupher61]

I've only spent a lot of time (meaning, more than a few hours) with 2 Alexander tubas.

One, a BBb Kaiser. Ancient, but what an instrument!!! A magnificent piece of equipment, lots of personality but few intonation quirks.

The other, I have no idea which model it is/was...a 1970 vintage CC, the horn I learned CC on. Unfortunately, when the FOURTH (edited to correct that) partial C was in tune, the 2nd partial was only in tune with 4-5 (IIRC) it's been almost 30 years.

Apparently that horn was ordered from Alex, sight unseen, horn unplayed, just called Giardenelli's and said "send us a CC Alexander". Bob Tucci was an acquaintance of the low brass prof at the time, he at least got the least doggish one of the batch available.
That was a horrible instrument. But the sound was sure there!

[sloan]

The other, I have no idea which model it is/was...a 1970 vintage CC, the horn I learned CC on. Unfortunately, when the third partial C was in tune, the 2nd partial was only in tune with 4-5 (IIRC) it's been almost 30 years.

Of course, with 4-5 down, that note is no longer the "second partial".

[Donn]

The other, I have no idea which model it is/was...a 1970 vintage CC, the horn I learned CC on. Unfortunately, when the third partial C was in tune, the 2nd partial was only in tune with 4-5 (IIRC) it's been almost 30 years.

Of course, with 4-5 down, that note is no longer the "second partial".

Probably wasn't the second partial in any case. Wouldn't you normally tune a 3rd partial to G, or am I confused? (Assuming C tuba, not F.)

[sloan]

The other, I have no idea which model it is/was...a 1970 vintage CC, the horn I learned CC on. Unfortunately, when the third partial C was in tune, the 2nd partial was only in tune with 4-5 (IIRC) it's been almost 30 years.

Of course, with 4-5 down, that note is no longer the "second partial".

Probably wasn't the second partial in any case. Wouldn't you normally tune a 3rd partial to G, or am I confused? (Assuming C tuba, not F.)

You mean that he wasn't even partially right?

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I am guessing that there have never been an abundant supply of Alexanders, so they seem to occupy more of a niche.

I do remember them being well thought of, if challenging in intonation, way back when I was in college, in Western NY. I believe that Don Harry was playing one (or two?) in the Buffalo Philharmonic, in the late 70's.

[Donn]

You mean that he wasn't even partially right?

My fundamental premise was something like that.

[tubatom91]

After reading all of this...my conclusion is that I really need to play one of these. I've yet to get to try one, I enjoy there sound a lot. I had a few masterclasses with Mickey Moore at U of Illinois this summer, he brought his 163CC to a few of them, AWESOME sound. Maybe at a Tuba Christmas somewhere, somebody will have one and will allow me to play there's.

[imperialbari]

How does the Fafner compare to the various large Alexander models?

[oedipoes]

How does the Fafner compare to the various large Alexander models?

And the Rudy 4/4 BBb and 5/4, to make a more complete comparison?
Is an Alex 164 more like a 4/4 Rudy, size-wise ? Or is it inbetween the 4/4 and the 5/4 ?

(btw, if you have a look at http://www.rudolf-meinl.de/seite6.html you will see that there are some interesting pictures of instruments for sale at Rudolf Meinl for the moment. It are instruments used for display at their Messe-booth, as far as I understood.)

Wim

[J.c. Sherman]

The 163 is - perhaps - comparable in size to a Rudy 4/4, but perhaps slightly larger. Much larger than a Miraphone 186. The 164 is not easily comparable to anything... it's enormous. Had one next to a Yorkbrunner the other day... and they are comparable, I suppose, in size but wildly different in sound concept and bore profile.

The 164 is a bit bigger than Fafner as well, but again a bit different in the tapers.

Have a look:

http://www.hornguys.com/Images/custom164bb_1.jpg" target="_blank" target="_blank

Of course, with nothing set against it, it's hard to compare... but it does dwarf a 163 by a long shot.

J.c.S. (proud 164 owner)

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone done a side by side comparison of OLD vs. NEW Alexanders? (If possible, comparing examples of the same model)

[oedipoes]

The 163 is - perhaps - comparable in size to a Rudy 4/4, but perhaps slightly larger. Much larger than a Miraphone 186. The 164 is not easily comparable to anything... it's enormous. Had one next to a Yorkbrunner the other day... and they are comparable, I suppose, in size but wildly different in sound concept and bore profile.

The 164 is a bit bigger than Fafner as well, but again a bit different in the tapers.

Have a look:

http://www.hornguys.com/Images/custom164bb_1.jpg" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Of course, with nothing set against it, it's hard to compare... but it does dwarf a 163 by a long shot.

J.c.S. (proud 164 owner)

You don't happen to have a pic of your wonderful 164 next to a rudy or fafner or.... for visual comparison?
Sorry to bother you about that, but you seem the only member of this forum actually owning a 164.
I saw some beatiful pictures of one in the for sale section, but no comparison:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28269&start=0&hilit=alex+bbb

(I guess it has been sold already.)

Wim

[J.c. Sherman]

Would a Kalison DS and a Yamaha 621 F suffice?



J.c.

[Rob]

To the OP:

Yes they are, so save yourself the shame of what you have, how you look, and find a new sound....while your at it you can feel free to donate any unwanted Alex's or other unfashionable horns(helicons, sousaphones, raincathchers, ect.) to Rob's House of Humble Horns.

FWIW my friends Alex has a lovely sound, takes a little work and if it wasn't a CC I'd BB better on it.

[jeopardymaster]

Set an old 163 next to a new PT-6 rotary version and you'll know in an instant what P & T had in mind. Funny, they don't quite SOUND the same, though, do they?

I have to admit, I do miss my old Alex - but I don't miss the time demands it made on me as a player. A very jealous mistress.

[oedipoes]

Would a Kalison DS and a Yamaha 621 F suffice?



J.c.

For comparison reasons? Yes they would.
And if not, it'd be some nice hornporn anyway.

Wim

[ken k]

so for those of us who have never played one or even know anyone who has ever played one, can someone post some pix and a little history of the legendary Alex models that everyone raves about. and what is it that set these horns apart

I gather from what I have read that their tone was beautiful but intonation was inconsistent or inconvenient.

ken "remember I was a trombone player by trade until i saw the light" k

[Rick Denney]

so for those of us who have never played one or even know anyone who has ever played one, can someone post some pix and a little history of the legendary Alex models that everyone raves about.

http://www.oberloh.com/gallery/alxcctuba.htm

That's a Model 163.

And here's a Model 164 (Kaiser) BBb:

from the Black Swan Jazz Band web page.

Here's a new 163, from the Low Brasswerks site (including a couple of what I assume are Tony Clements's toes):



(Here's the web page, picturing and describing the new versions of these instruments: http://www.lowbrasswerks.com/newtuba.html)

As described to me by one who played an Alex professionally in an orchestra: "They will do anything, but you have to do it." As in, versatile but demanding. After he sold it to get a Yorkbrunner, he had an opportunity many years later to try it again, and he set it aside after about 10 minutes. His reason was variously, "It was too much work" and "I was afraid the maestro would like it."

I think of the Alex as the tuba for a younger generation of tubas players. There's nothing of Jacobs's "old man's tuba" in the Alex. But if you had the chops, it had the sound.

Rick "who remembers the brooding and commanding sound, but who could never produce that sound himself on an Alex" Denney