Qustion about Contra's/Convertable's (not Sousaphones)...

[jon112780]

I've never had a chance to play more than two of these side by side, but I was hoping to get some input as far as: sound/intonation/ease of play/ease of carrying/etc...

If you (or someone you know) was going for the over-the-shoulder 'look'(and sound) AND DIDN'T WANT SOUSAPHONES AT ALL, what horns would recommend?

Take into consideration that the (theoretical) tuba section in question is of average size/height/ability/dedication/whininess/etc, and would only be used for marching; what would your top two or three choices be?

I tried to include all the 4/4 and 5/4 horns I could find, and excluded the little 3/4 size ones that are pretty much a marching version of the Yamaha 621 BBb's. I played one of those and it seemed pretty easy to blat...

The mix of decent (and no-so-good) sounding horns I've played in the past didn't have anything to do with it being a convertibles or contras, so just left or right shoulder isn't an issue...

Did I miss any horns?

Dynasty 010-M845 BBb Convertible (4/4 3v)
Dynasty 010-M875 BBb Contra (4/4 4v)
Dynasty 010-M880 BBb Contra (5/4 4v)
http://dynastyband.com/product/productl ... oductID=31" target="_blank

Jupiter 384L BBb Convertible Tuba
http://www.jupitermusic.com/jbi_instrum ... =1&pId=173" target="_blank

Jupiter 5080S BBb Quantum Marching Tuba
http://www.jupitermusic.com/jbi_instrum ... =1&pId=423" target="_blank

Kanstul 201 BBb Contra and/or Convertible (4/4 3v)
Kanstul 200 BBb Contra and/or Convertible (5/4 3v)
Kanstul 200/4 BBb Contra and/or Convertible (5/4 4v)
http://www.kanstul.net/html/products/ma ... brass.html" target="_blank

King 1151SP BBb Contra (5/4 3v)
King 1140M BBb Convertible (4/4 3v)
http://www.kingwinds.com/content/products.php?sub=Tuba" target="_blank

Schiller BBb (4/4 3v)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Schiller-Field-Seri ... 946wt_1010" target="_blank

Yamaha YBB-202MWC BBb Contra (4/4 3v)
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... TID=244800" target="_blank

[imperialbari]

When I see modern drum harnesses, I wonder why there are no harness shaped tubas resting eqgually on both shoulders.

Klaus

[sloan]

When I see modern drum harnesses, I wonder why there are no harness shaped tubas resting eqgually on both shoulders.

Klaus

It's called a "20J"

[DavidK]

My opinion for your proposed tuba section: Shy away from the 3/4 sized and any of the convertibles.

Dealing with whiner factor. weigh/balance.

Yamaha M202 - lightest on the market around 20-21 pounds. Good build quality, good intonation. Medium .728 bore. Big 21 inch bell - to appease any "compensation issues" ha! Good valves. Balance is OK.
Listen to:
Cavaliers last several years
Blue Coats last 3 years
Santa Clara last several years
Madison past 3 years
Colts

Yamaha 201 - convertible - If you go yamaha, go for the 202 anyway!

Jupiter - too early to tell. This is the second year for their full sized model. Initially had lots of intonation problems, hence the additional trigger, slide flipper.
The design is totally copied from the Kanstul. But it is very light. Much lighter than the Kanstul.
Listen to:
Phantom Regiment 2009
Teal Sound
Academy
Jersey Surf

Dynasty M875
4/4 size. Very nice player. We use them. Medium bore .728. 19 inch bell. Surprisingly resonant. Far superior to the Yamaha 201 convertible or 321 concert models. Good valves. Around 24 pounds. Balance is good.
Listen to:
Blue Devils 2008

Dynasty M885
5/4 Bigger bore .750 and bell 20", Good valves. Heavier about 29 pounds.
Listen to:
Blue Devils 2000 - 2007
It's too bad that the Dynasty low brass is no longer made by Willson. It was a nice quality point. But I guess it provided a good model for Weril to work from.

Kanstul
5/4 - Zig Kanstul/King philosophy and approach from the early 1980's to 90's. Small bore, big 21" bell. Combination of right hand thumb ring and pinky ring can be a pain to get your hand in and out of. Heaviest contrabass out there. Players will give you a weight range of 34 to 100 pounds !
Listen to:
Blue Devils 1990's
Bluecoats from a few years back
Spirit from a few years back.

King Ultimate 1151
A good player
Medium bore, .734, big bell 21:. Heavy about 29 pounds. Balance is a bt bell heavy.
Listen to"
Phantom Regiment 2006-2008
Boston
Blue Stars
Troopers
Spirit

[David Richoux]

When I see modern drum harnesses, I wonder why there are no harness shaped tubas resting eqgually on both shoulders.

Klaus

You mean something like the Lehnert Horn?

lenhert-horn.jpg

snagged from Eric Totman's site

[Mcordon1]

- The old Willson Swiss-made Dynasty (GG and...perhaps (were a few made in) BBb...??) is the same quality as the Willson 3100 concert tuba, but weighs a TON.

My drum corps(Empire Statesmen in DCA) uses these GGs. I think someone said they were 45 pounds? but the number 49 sticks out in my head...maybe it is with my heavyweight Bayamo!
The weight is almost excessive. Boy does it hurt sometimes.

They're the largest and heaviest GG contra's I've ever seen or held. It's pretty much impossible to overblow notes below the second partial(concert G, transposed to C). The third valve is real edgy though, too much. Fourth valve is pretty sharp, gotta pull out the slide. But too much and you'll yank it out during horns up(which has happened to me several times)


They're definitely 5/4 size. 4 valves. I'll measure the Bell, bore, and height and put some horn dorn up!

[harrell]

I have played on the Kanstul contra and one of the Cavalier's Yamaha contras. I was not impressed with the Kanstul but I did like the Yamaha. Yamaha got a big sound and was easy to play.

I would stay away from the smallish 3/4 size horns. There is a large marching band in my state that uses 3/4 size convertible 3/4 tubas and you just can't hear them. Also one of the local high schools near me went from sousaphones to 4/4 contras and the kids just can't fill up the horn enough to justify the switch. From my experience, and I have been a band director for several years, sousaphones just work better for high school and younger kids, if that is what you are thinking about.

My 2 cents.

[OldsRecording]

I remember years ago King made a front-action convertable horn. When you went from the concert leadpipe to the marching leadpipe you also had to swap the 1st and 3rd valve slides, so the 1st valve became the 3rd valve and vice-versa. That always seemed like a much more natural hand position than the top-action horns. I wonder what ever happened to that design.

[David Richoux]

http://www.kanstul.net/html/products/ma ... brass.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

By "Tune-Any-Note" are they just saying all the valve loops have tuning slides? Are there any other modern production horns (marching bras or otherwise) that don't? (not counting those Indian odd-balls.)

[imperialbari]

http://www.kanstul.net/html/products/ma ... brass.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

By "Tune-Any-Note" are they just saying all the valve loops have tuning slides? Are there any other modern production horns (marching bras or otherwise) that don't? (not counting those Indian odd-balls.)

As I understand the Tune-Any-Note feature from my Kanstul G marching baritone, it is about having two main tuning slides. The 2nd has a thumb ring for on the fly adjustments.

Klaus

[Bob Kolada]

I remember years ago King made a front-action convertable horn. When you went from the concert leadpipe to the marching leadpipe you also had to swap the 1st and 3rd valve slides, so the 1st valve became the 3rd valve and vice-versa. That always seemed like a much more natural hand position than the top-action horns. I wonder what ever happened to that design.

There is a silver 15J out of Illinois on eBay that says it just came back from being "Tested" at the shop, although it has the folded over top 3rd slide in the first slide tubing.