Mouthpiece tool?

[hald]

Does anyone make a set of dowels so you can quickly determine an instrument's mouthpiece receiver shank size? And a corresponding mouthpiece sizer?

I would like to try a Yamaha Jim Self on a 1948 Besson, 3V, comp, recording bell. Also, a Bobo TT on W. Nirshel and Jean Baptiste euphoniums. How do I determine what will fit? I've emailed a mouthpiece store and there's been no reply.

At an antique flea market this past weekend, it would have been great to have these tools when I was looking at old mouthpieces and instruments.

[imperialbari]

Never heard of a tool like that.

I cannot say anything about the euphs mentioned, as I never met them. The 1948 Besson Eb is guaranteed to have a small receiver, if nobody put a new receiver on it. A mouthpiece with an American shank will sit tightly and playable, but it will not enter very far into the receiver. This is how my Sidey Classic in brass works on my 1970 Besson BBb.

Klaus

[Mike-ICR]

Buy a digital caliper. If you stay in the low brass family then there are only a few measurements to remember (small/American, medium/European and large for euph and European and large for tuba). Carry the caliper with you when looking at horns and mouthpieces and compare. Eventually you'll see enough to know just by looking what kind of piece and what kind of receiver you're dealing with.

[windshieldbug]

A digital caliper would no doubt be smaller and infinitely more useful than carrying around a set of dowels and receivers in case you run across something.

[TubaSailor]

Why not just carry a mouthpiece with a known shank size, and try it in the receiver? If it fits too far in, the receiver is larger than the shank size; not far enough, receiver is smaller than shank size. (I have to keep things really simple for myself.)

[hald]

The Besson is a BBb. I've been told it is a small euro size, as opposed to just euro size. I took it to a well regarded shop and we could not definitely determine the size. Nothing they had fit it correctly.

I've tried calipers, but where on the shank to measure? I've also found differences in the taper.

I suspect the euphs are large shank.
The Nirschel site says "5H bass shank mouthpiece." A bass trombone size? Does this translate to a euphonium size? American, small American, Large shank, small shank, small euro, euro. The other euph is a Jean Baptists made by J.A. Muzik in Germany.

I wasn't joking about flea markets. I'm looking for a mouthpiece for a J.W. York Eb tuba. I've taken it to several stores and found nothing that fits. I purchased a mouthpiece from a forum member who said they had a tuba just like mine; it didn't fit. This tuba seems to have a unique taper to the receiver. It would be tiresome to carry it to flea markets.

Thanks for the suggestions. Does anyone know of an off the shelf mouthpiece that can be ordered in all the different sizes? Or where to get a set of mouthpiece receivers?

[oedipoes]

The Nirschel site says "5H bass shank mouthpiece." A bass trombone size? Does this translate to a euphonium size? American, small American, Large shank, small shank, small euro, euro.

Besson advertized the receiver size for its larger sovereign and 2052 prestige line of euphoniums as being 'bass trombone shank'. A Denis Wick SM3, 4 or other number is made for that receiver and fits perfectly.

Wim

[imperialbari]

The Nirschel site says "5H bass shank mouthpiece." A bass trombone size? Does this translate to a euphonium size? American, small American, Large shank, small shank, small euro, euro.

Besson advertized the receiver size for its larger sovereign and 2052 prestige line of euphoniums as being 'bass trombone shank'. A Denis Wick SM3, 4 or other number is made for that receiver and fits perfectly.

Wim

The Denis Wick original models (non-SM) shall not have an M, an S, or a Y in their model designation if they shall fit a large euphonium receiver.

Klaus

[windshieldbug]

I'm looking for a mouthpiece for a J.W. York Eb tuba. I've taken it to several stores and found nothing that fits... This tuba seems to have a unique taper to the receiver.

It does. The tuba sizes that you described will not help you. It is common with other early American Eb's, but no modern tuba mouthpiece will fit if it still has the original receiver.

I have found that a large shank bass trombone mouthpiece is pretty close, if you want a modern one. The larger ones are pretty close to what the Eb cup size should be, too. If you DO find one at a flea market, it'll look more like a bass trombone size than tuba size.

I know that Dillon's has reproduced several early tuba mouthpieces, it wouldn't surprise me if they have an early Eb size, also.

Why smaller? Before radio, town bands provided the only music besides piano. And unless the tuba was rich enough to afford BOTH a concert tuba and a helicon, he marched with the same horn he sat, so size was important (even then!).

[bill]

This thread has developed in to two discussions, one about a specific application and the other about a tool to measure mouthpiece and receiver sizes. It would seem that the latter problem (measuring) would be fairly easy to solve by a competent machinist.

Jewelers have a device they use to measure ring sizes. Why could this not be used as a pattern for measuring receiver sizes? I also have noticed that my mouthpiece shank straightening tool could be marked so that it would show how large the end of the mouthpiece is thus the outer diameter could be inferred.

I have not done either thing because I can tell by inserting a mouthpiece in a receiver whether or not the mouthpiece fits and I use a caliper, meant for people reloading cartridges, to measure shank ends. In my capacity as a mouthpiece moyen, I have adjusted shank lengths to make different mouthpieces fit different receivers.

I do find the correct gap is important in using a mouthpiece but, given that, the correct gap is not something requiring measurements down to the thousandths of an inch or the the micro centimeter.

Just some thoughts on this subject. YMMV

[Mike-ICR]

This thread has developed in to two discussions, one about a specific application and the other about a tool to measure mouthpiece and receiver sizes. It would seem that the latter problem (measuring) would be fairly easy to solve by a competent machinist.

Jewelers have a device they use to measure ring sizes. Why could this not be used as a pattern for measuring receiver sizes? I also have noticed that my mouthpiece shank straightening tool could be marked so that it would show how large the end of the mouthpiece is thus the outer diameter could be inferred.

No one is suggesting that a tool can't be made to measure mouthpieces and receivers. The OP was looking for a ready-made tool. To my knowledge there isn't one. I love your idea of using the ring sizing tools as a starting point. It's probably the most realistic and effective options. Well done.

[hald]

I have a set of jeweler's ring sizer's, so I'm totally with you... My jeweler's sets are on keyrings and something about the same size would be ideal. Thanks for the info on the Eb mouthpiece; it's good to confirm the taper is different.

So a bass trombone mouthpiece is the same euphonium size as...? Or should I be looking at bass trombone mouthpieces instead of euphonium mouthpieces (I'm getting confused again)?

[Mike-ICR]

I have a set of jeweler's ring sizer's, so I'm totally with you... My jeweler's sets are on keyrings and something about the same size would be ideal. Thanks for the info on the Eb mouthpiece; it's good to confirm the taper is different.

So a bass trombone mouthpiece is the same euphonium size as...? Or should I be looking at bass trombone mouthpieces instead of euphonium mouthpieces (I'm getting confused again)?

A large shank euph mouthpiece is the same as a bass trombone shank.