Why contrabass tubas? (above-board troll)

[Bob Kolada]

And WHY, does the interpretation of the tuba have to revolve around an orchestral scenario? Like that is what -most- tuba players play in day to day.

[k001k47]

In order to avoid confusion, I will explain why I NEED a contrabass and a bass tuba the way I do to my family.(or a gradeschool kid)


I sound bad playing low and loud on a little tuba.
I sound bad playing pretty and soft on a big tuba.

[eupher61]

I play mostly F, have done so for at least 20 years, when I sold my last CC (Piggy).

I do have a BBb 3/4 Weril, which I use almost strictly for jazz work. I use the F for jazz when it makes sense from whatever perspective may apply.

I found long ago that I really don't sound good on big horns, meaning contrabass. Whether it's the length vs my air ability, or resonance, or karma, I sound much better on F.
One guy who books me a lot hates anything else I ever bring, including the Conn Eb I had for a while. Hated it. Said he'd quit hiring me if I brought it.

I really don't think he can hear any difference. Some people just can't stand change, or being in total control. I'd prefer to use the Weril on some gigs, but nope. I happen to love playing F, so it's sort of fine, but I'd like to start protecting the F a little bit, it's 25 years old now. Oh well.

[J.c. Sherman]

I. I think the orchestra scenario is being brought up a lot by those who's base of work is orchestral. For several of us, that's just what we do the most. And for me, Band is orchestral - strings Tacet.

II. Dee Stewart (Euph) gets a great sound on the opening track Cleveland/Philly/Chicago recording. That record in general has been so influential to me. My Dad had it on reel-to-reel tape when I was a kid. And I always hope the tuba sections I play with will sound like the last track of that recording!

III. True enough: A recording engineer is the last word on what comes out of my speakers. On one occassion I've had a recording made where I was not pleased as to what was done to/with me. But I think the player has some influence as well... otherwise why bother with the selected group? I can't deny it's me on there, and there's a difference as to when I use my Eb and when I used the BBb.

J.c.S.

[Dean E]

An unforgettable, personal, peak experience for this amateur was performing the finale of the 1812 last year with my Willson 3050RZ CC (a 5/4 contrabass) at the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, Washington, D.C., the eighth largest religious structure in the world. Priceless.

National Shrine (Small).JPG

VA Natl Medical Group 2008-2 (Small).jpg

[Bill Troiano]

Is this true that Sam Pilafian used a BBb with the Empire Brass Quintet? Not that I'm aware of. Most of the time he used a MW rotary CC.

[J.c. Sherman]

I know the guy currently using his old (MW25) ax; heavily modified, with some valve caps weighted, some without; he says it plays like a dream!

Take it for what it's worth - hearsay. But he was just as disbelieving as I.

J.c.S.

[tbn.al]

disbelieving as I.

J.c.S.

Me too but I don't know why. From what I've heard from a couple of his students he could probably have put those tracks down with a garden hose and we wouldn't have known.

[eupher61]

I recently found 3 recital tapes, from 25 years ago or so. The difference in sound between my CC Piggy and my B&S F is immense. Neither is bad, but just different.

People 'round here love to have me play the F, as I've said other posts. But, if I'd known how much I miss playing that specific Piggy, I would've kept it.

[Bob Kolada]

I'm starting to think that I prefer a bass trombone (maybe contra or cimbasso, depending on the piece) for most small brass group playing.

No argument here.... But then again, the topic wasn't tuba or bass trombone for quintet was it?

RC

However, bloke's point seems to be that contrabass tubas are (or tend to be) more difficult/heavier/.... than bass tubas and my point there was I think even bass tubas are really too different for a lot of stuff (and yes, I DO enjoy playing tuba, believe it or not! ).

[iiipopes]

Why? Because I LIKE it that way!

[Wyvern]

I think even bass tubas are really too different for a lot of stuff

This is that point of blending which has also been mentioned above. My view is that I like to hear a variety of tones in an ensemble and one of the joys of the tuba is its distinctive tone. I can never understand why one would want to blend, be it in a quintet, band, or orchestra? Be pleased to be different with your own voice!

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I think even bass tubas are really too different for a lot of stuff

This is that point of blending which has also been mentioned above. My view is that I like to hear a variety of tones in an ensemble and one of the joys of the tuba is its distinctive tone. I can never understand why one would want to blend, be it in a quintet, band, or orchestra? Be pleased to be different!

A very important point, in my mind.

I personally prefer to listen to an orchestra, rather than band, for one reason: the number of different tone color combinations which are available to the composer, due to the color potential of the strings, are much greater. It makes for more interesting, varied, listening.

The problem that I have with brass quintet is the sameness of tone color within the group. Aside from the fact that you are dealing only with brass instruments, 3 of the other instruments are cylindrical (the horn being the only conical instrument). Having the 5th voice be also cylindrical, creates an imbalance in the group, and presents a more monochromatic tone color palette for the composer. I feel it is less interesting for the listener. (Spoken like a real tuba player!)

The balance of conical vs. cylindrical with a quintet, which includes a tuba, is much better. The combination of the dense tuba conical tone, plus the horn's lighter conical tone, balances the puny cylindrical trio.

[tbn.al]

[the puny cylindrical trio.

I can think of a bunch of words that might describe the bass trombone voice in a brass quintet, or any other ensemble for that matter, and somehow "puny" just doesn't come to mind. Robust, Visceral, Gutteral, Harsh, Raspy, Abrasive and Blatty all work for us as do Flatulent and chain saw like, but "puny? I assure you I can inflict serious timpanic distress at 30 feet given the right provocation. Now I must stop this frivolous typing and immerse myself in the immortal words of Messrs. Maddox, Moore and Vernon.

[pwhitaker]

One word springs to mind re contrabass tuba: Gravitas.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

[the puny cylindrical trio.

I can think of a bunch of words that might describe the bass trombone voice in a brass quintet, or any other ensemble for that matter, and somehow "puny" just doesn't come to mind. Robust, Visceral, Gutteral, Harsh, Raspy, Abrasive and Blatty all work for us as do Flatulent and chain saw like, but "puny? I assure you I can inflict serious timpanic distress at 30 feet given the right provocation. Now I must stop this frivolous typing and immerse myself in the immortal words of Messrs. Maddox, Moore and Vernon.

Ah, but the puny trio is made up of two trumpets, and a diminutive TENOR trombone!

[Rick Denney]

For me, the sameness of sound in a quintet is what makes it work as an ensemble. There is a clarity in having the voices so much from the same family. The quintets I've listened to that included a big orchestral tuba seemed to sound like a tuba with four brass accompanists, whereas a quintet with a well-integrated sound makes a wall of harmonic structure. That does not mean a big tuba can't work, it just means the big tuba player has to make it work. And that is not easy. With the F tuba, I can put that effort in and get the tight, dry sound that is appropriate for Renaissance music, or I can go the other way and play a bass line for a Dixieland arrangement. F or small C is not that important to me from the audience perspective, but in that role I play F better and more accurately so that's what I use.

Rick "trying unsuccessfully to imagine Prokofiev's 5th on an F tuba, however" Denney

[eupher61]

One word springs to mind re contrabass tuba: Gravitas.

um...that would seem a stretch of sorts, but the judge's decision is that it's OK.