speeding nonsense...

[djwesp]

http://www.lufkindailynews.com/news/con ... =1&cxcat=0" target="_blank" target="_blank


personally, I say good for this guy. the big brother nonsense has gotten out of control. Arizona has made 23 million dollars in just a few months, literally issues a ticket for more than 1mph over the speed limit, and has issued 497,000 speeding tickets in a year!

A $165 for 2 over, slow driving "speed monitoring vans" that slow traffic down to a standstill during rush hours, PLUS the city of phoenix having some of the highest crime per capita and devoting 70% of its force to traffic regulations.

[Donn]

Wonder why we can't just observe the posted limits, though?

My impression is that enforcement has long been understood to tolerate 5 mph over, so you can drive more or less at the limit and not worry too much about accidentally going over by 1 or 2 on a downhill or due to speedometer error. But what it actually means is that everyone feels free to drive 5 mph over (and that now seems to have turned to 10 mph over, maybe by questionable extension of the same logic.) That 5 mph margin was a nice idea, but it doesn't make sense if drivers insist on driving faster than the posted limit.

[OOMPAH]

[TMurphy]

[rant]

Please stop whipping out the S word. This has nothing to do with socialism at all. Socialism is a form of governance and that is all. I am sick to death of people using that work for just about anything they do not like. It stinks of the mindlessness of "the right" and all the panic attacks about Obama. It is stupid and completely NOT "cool" to spew hot button words like that one without considering how completely inaccurate it is. I am sick of the current divisiveness in our nation's current political scene. The thoughtless, inaccurate use of that current pack-of-dogs buzzword is akin to all the other, current, inaccurate usages of that word. I have no love of socialism, but I do love accuracy in my verbiage. If you honestly believe that what is going on in Phoenix is somehow related to socialism then I do no know what to tell you.

But I am sick of our current political BS, the lies, the twistings of facts, the misinterpretations, the collusion, the intentional fear mongering. And the word socialism is getting FAR too much airplay these days. It is moronic. It is sophomoric. To use it here is to drag that crap into our little world here where Sean has forbidden political discussion.

Please provide us with examples from political texts (with citations) that demonstrate that support your claim of socialism.

I am sick of this political crap. And this has EVERYTHING to do with the current stink over H.R. 3200 and the right's divisive, fear mongering use of that word all over the place these days.

Geeze, these days if you don't like something just call it socialist! Yeah! Excellent! Accuracy be damned! Woo-hoo!

[/rant]

Wade,

THANK YOU for posting this. This EXACTLY explains how I feel about the world "socialist" being tossed around willy-nilly by politicos trying to avoid actually discussing things and trying to work out a solution. Rather than raise legitimate concerns and try to work towards COMPROMISE and SOLUTIONS, all we get are insults and red flag words like "socialist" thrown about to work people into a frenzy, and it's disgusting. On both sides.

[windshieldbug]

[rant]

Please stop whipping out the S word. This has nothing to do with socialism at all. Socialism is a form of governance and that is all. I am sick to death of people using that work for just about anything they do not like. It stinks of the mindlessness of "the right" and all the panic attacks about Obama. It is stupid and completely NOT "cool" to spew hot button words like that one without considering how completely inaccurate it is. I am sick of the current divisiveness in our nation's current political scene. The thoughtless, inaccurate use of that current pack-of-dogs buzzword is akin to all the other, current, inaccurate usages of that word. I have no love of socialism, but I do love accuracy in my verbiage. If you honestly believe that what is going on in Phoenix is somehow related to socialism then I do no know what to tell you.

But I am sick of our current political BS, the lies, the twistings of facts, the misinterpretations, the collusion, the intentional fear mongering. And the word socialism is getting FAR too much airplay these days. It is moronic. It is sophomoric. To use it here is to drag that crap into our little world here where Sean has forbidden political discussion.

Please provide us with examples from political texts (with citations) that demonstrate that support your claim of socialism.

I am sick of this political crap. And this has EVERYTHING to do with the current stink over H.R. 3200 and the right's divisive, fear mongering use of that word all over the place these days.

Geeze, these days if you don't like something just call it socialist! Yeah! Excellent! Accuracy be damned! Woo-hoo!

[/rant]

"You LIE!!!"

[Donn]

Because the limits rarely reflect the speeds the roads were engineered for - especially on the interstates. Add in the fact that most Americans really don't like the socialism of everybody being forced to do the same thing by a bunch of government bureaucrats. If the majority of people speed then the will of the people is that the speed limits are too low and isn't the US government supposed to reflect the will of the people?

Wade already nailed you on the socialism point (and knocked a lot more heads in the process - good work!)

But the point of your argument seems to be that more generally, you don't feel we need to recognize the government authority, because it isn't Americans imposing these rules, but government bureaucrats. That, however, is how governance works in the US, and everywhere else, so I'm wondering what would work for you? No rules? Mob rule - if most drivers take a stretch of road at 50, then that's the speed limit? Public elections to set the speed limit for each road?

It's observable fact that most people drive like lunatics. If you're not sure about speed, look at following distance. Get out on the freeway near a major city and look at how close people get to the next car, while driving 60 mph or whatever. Look in one of these cars and marvel at how ordinary these people look - they're not really lunatics, they just aren't thinking. They aren't responsible drivers, and if a majority of them drive like that, that doesn't mean it's OK.

My city, Seattle, has a sort of reputation for abiding by traffic regulations. Visitors laugh when they see us standing at intersections, waiting for a walk light to cross a deserted street. The reputation isn't entirely deserved any more, as with the influx of people from elsewhere Seattle isn't really much different from elsewhere, but maybe those people will move on, and the people who get it will stay. We're part of a community. The community has these rules, that we impose on each other, and that we observe out of respect for each other.

[Doug@GT]

[rant]

Wade is a socialist.

[windshieldbug]

Wade is a socialist.

From what I've heard, he's very antisocial...

[djwesp]

I think it is noble to be so concerned with traffic. However, the primary point, in my mind, remains. The fact is that Phoenix is an area of high crime. The problem is that the majority of the phoenix law enforcements is enforcing traffic moving violations. At some point in time a prioritization must come. Another issue is that the "speed vans" contribute even more to the problem. The vans don't drive the speed limit, in fact they sometimes drive 20-30+ below the speed limit, DURING RUSH HOUR. I've seen more wrecks and almost wrecks in the Phoenix metro in my 5 visits due to these vans, than I ever have because a speeder (even those stereotypical ones that just piss us off so much).

Civil disobedience is just that. The U.S. has an infatuation with gross punishment of non-violent crime. This has come about from revenue possibilities and our constant "war on"-drugs-alcohol-smoking-etc, that we carry out to no avail while not rehabilitating actual criminals correctly.


This is NOT about socialism, this is about common sense.

[iiipopes]

The tickets for one or two miles over are ridiculous. This is from a guy who used to be an assistant prosecutor. I didn't have time for all the crap. Most of the highway patrolmen I worked with were of the same reasonable bent. There are much greater crime prevention and apprehension priorities. One particular patrolman I used to converse with frequently said he simply didn't write tickets less than 8 mph over because of all this nonsense, especially with the vagaries of speedometer error, tire pressure differences, downhill rolling, people simply trying to get where they're going during rush hour, etc., when most of these drivers are decent people, otherwise driving safely and prudently, and trying to obey the laws generally, and are just trying to live their lives accordingly.

About a two hours' drive or so north of where I live there is a municipality that sits on a US highway. The speed limit on that particular highway generally is 55 or 60. This little municipality arbitrarily set the speed limit through town, with no safety justification, or traffic intersection justification, at 45, and used to rake in thousands of dollars of revenue on the speeding tickets they would write. Everybody in the entire state complained. When I was in defense practice, and had clients with speeding tickets through this particular municipality, I complained. Finally, the state made them rescend this arbitrary drop in speed limit on the threat of withholding other state funding to the municipality. The news media state-wide got involved. Finally, the speed limit signs were removed; the city ordinance was repealed. The entire state literally celebrated. I drove through there just last weekend on the way to a sunny weekend outing at a regional state park with my family. As I approached the point where the old drop in speed limit signs were, I grinned broadly and celebrated privately that for once, rationality prevailed.

Now, make no mistake: reasonable speed limits are necessary for civic safety. I've read way too many accident reports, including fatalities, involving speed, that were totally preventable and would nauseate even the most iron-clad constitutions. Again, the key word here is "reasonable" for the circumstances.

Please, everyone drive safely for the conditions at hand. Regardless of what the speed limit sign may or may not say.

[OOMPAH]

[tubafatness]

About a two hours' drive or so north of where I live there is a municipality that sits on a US highway. The speed limit on that particular highway generally is 55 or 60. This little municipality arbitrarily set the speed limit through town, with no safety justification, or traffic intersection justification, at 45, and used to rake in thousands of dollars of revenue on the speeding tickets they would write. Everybody in the entire state complained. When I was in defense practice, and had clients with speeding tickets through this particular municipality, I complained. Finally, the state made them rescend this arbitrary drop in speed limit on the threat of withholding other state funding to the municipality. The news media state-wide got involved. Finally, the speed limit signs were removed; the city ordinance was repealed. The entire state literally celebrated. I drove through there just last weekend on the way to a sunny weekend outing at a regional state park with my family. As I approached the point where the old drop in speed limit signs were, I grinned broadly and celebrated privately that for once, rationality prevailed.

Anyone going north on I-51 through Illinois will recognize this situation. Between the center of the state and Bloomington, IL, there are three spots that dip from 10-20 mph below the regular highway limit, (which, in Illinois, is itself lower than the surrounding states, and, basically the entire country.) All three are small towns resting on the highway, and all three rake in the money with speeding tickets. My oldest brother, who is as law-abiding as anyone out there, got a couple of those when he was commuting every day to teach at ISU. But, seeing as the state government in Illinois is ridiculous, this situation will probably never be resolved. Besides, in a roundabout way, it is just another way for the state to take more people's money...

[Tubaryan12]

I always laugh when people complain about speeding tickets. Speeding tickets are easy to not get. Don't speed and pay attention and you will probably not get one. I've gotten a couple in my day. I deserved every one I got. I don't blame the cop, the government, or anyone else for the fact that I got one. I blame me. End of story.

For the last 5 years or so I have been driving using the Smith Driving System and 3 things have happened. First of all, driving has become a lot more relaxing. I set my cruise to the speed limit and watch people pass me all day. I get where I'm going a few minutes later than I would if I was "keeping up with the flow of traffic", but it's a much more relaxed ride. No more slamming on the brakes because someone cut me off, or, heaven forbid, drive the speed limit in the fast lane. Second, I get much better gas mileage, and third, lower maintenance cost. The brakes on my Elantra lasted 99,950 miles. I only changed them at that point because I was getting a wheel bearing done.

I challenge anyone to try it for a week and report back on how it went. I'll be surprised if you don't like it.

[Donn]

Throughout my life, I've found that folks who (within a given discussion) pick over which "brand" of socialism (Russian Communism/Cuban-Venezuelan Communism/Chinese Communism/1930's-1940's German National Socialism/present-day Euro-Canadian-socialism/etc., etc., ad infinitum...) are usually some sorts of advocates of some sort of socialism.

Yes, I believe Wade is in fact an advocate of some sort of socialism - probably the sort that has been practiced by every modern state for generations. Of course under the circumstances, it's more about recognizing what planet you're on, than advocacy in a meaningful sense. Greetings, Earth Man Wade!

[Tuba Guy]

I hate to admit it, but you're all wrong.
Anarchy is the way to go.