So what has happened...really...??

[djwesp]

Bloke, it still exists, even at the college level.


Arkansas Tech University, just a short jaunt from you still does it "the right" way. Each member of the graduation ceremony wears appropriate attire, or does not walk. There are zero shenanigans. An announcement is made prior that any of the hooting or hollering from the audience will not be tolerated (and you will be removed by security from the building for "distrubing the sanctity of a deep tradition rooted in masonic influence"). Indeed the band even plays intellectual, non-bravada based music.

All in all, it is the only graduation service I have attended where I feel like the respect for the ceremony and dignity/pride for the event is upheld to the highest regard.

For the last few years I have done about 20 graduations in Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, and Arkansas. It never ceases to amaze me what the quintets I've been in play (at the urging of the institution) and the actions of those present.

[Tubaryan12]

This is the very reason I am so glad that I only have one more graduation that I have to go to.

[The Jackson]

The college I go to can only be called a "college" based on the facilities and faculty they provide. The students are all high school kids. Miami-Dade College (and I can only assume the case is the same with many, many other like schools) is a haven for high school kids (the ones who just barely passed) who have absolutely no idea what they want to do with themselves, but still want to "be somebody".

I think I know exactly what you're talking about, bloke. This crap encourages the idea that I, as a "teenager", can be young-and-wild forever and just put the real world off until later. My mom is a recruiter for a technical college goes to all of these crappy high school and tells me that the 12th graders in high school who have a realistic idea about what they want to do in the next few years is an outstandingly slim minority.


I will share a bitterly true anecdote depicting exactly what the mindset is behind this kind of thinking. I was playing the graduation of the college I go to and some loser was blowing an air horn during the names. He did this a handful of times before a couple of security guards approached him (two were flanking him and one was at the nearest exit, of course ). After exchanging some puzzled looks , the guy goes to hand the air horn to one of the guards.

The guard politely declined the offer and instead escorted the gentleman out of the venue.

[Arkietuba]

Yeah, it's ridiculous what goes on at graduations. I really don't want to "walk" since it doesn't even have any real meaning anymore. I play at a lot of graduations and I hear the same tired old speech (except our new school pres. just gave a good one this summer) about how much money you make with a degree, then I have to hear some loud folks yell at the top of their lungs for their 3rd cousin who majored in mass comm and the next kid in line gets no applause or anything when they wrote an awesome paper about string theory or something. I hated my high school graduation (plus the 550 graduates only prolonged it) and they only fun part was playing "Fanfare for the Common Man" and a few other cool pieces, well and I hung out with some friends between the rehearsal and actual graduation.

[Tubaryan12]

What happened?

The WWII gen came home and, because of the awful things they endured, they spoiled the living sh!t out of their kids. Those kids, in turn, had zero parenting skills nor discipline.

On rolls the snowball.

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding.....We have a winner!

Actually, WWII produced another type of parent as well....It's the type that taught their children that you can never be too secure and you can never have enough. These folks hoard cash like crazy and work well past retirement age. I have a few of these guys that work with me.

But it is easy to figure out which type there are more of.

[Uncle Buck]

The phenomenon is nothing new. The cycle has repeated itself over and over again throughout history.

Periods of relative "peace and prosperity" (and let's face it, in the U.S., the average standard of living for the past century is something unlike anything else in history) are almost always followed by a decline in civility. Periods of hardship produce a tougher generation.

[lgb&dtuba]

I believe that every generation looks at the preceding generation as out of control as they themselves age. For example (one of many) check out the kids of the "Jazz Age", the flappers. Their parents saw them as the end of civilization, yet they were the parents of WWII generation. Jitterbug and the music of the WWII generation was the end of civilization. Rock and Roll was the end of civilization. Heavy Metal and it's generation was. No, wait, Disco was the real end of civilization. Or was it Rap?

Are manners really dead or have they just changed? For that matter were there ever any manners that weren't just made up out of thin air by etiquette "authorities"?

It's perfectly natural for each new generation to come up with whatever it takes to differentiate themselves from their parents as it is just as natural for their parents to react in horror.

Each and every generation has its share of both idiots and good people. Sweeping generalities about whole generations is just narrow mindedness. Especially generalities based on observing the idiots.

[Carroll]

I will pose another "reason" for our collective lack of decorum... based on my own observations. I believe the VCR and now the DVD player have contributed to our common etiquette decline. We used to HAVE to go to a theatre to see a movie. We used to HAVE to get to our seat on time and stay there until intermission. We used to HAVE to stay still and quiet during the film. We had ushers and other patrons to encourage us to do so. Now we can show any movie we want to in our living rooms and go to the kitchen for snacks or to the toilet whenever we please. We can pause the tape/disc and not miss a thing. We can talk and comment and rewind and act any way we wish. I believe we have lost those social skills as a society. I will venture to say that the same decline has come about in the concert setting, as well, because of the ease of hearing and seeing recorded music. You do not HAVE to behave yourself when you are plopped down in front of your computer watching Youtube.

But I will keep plugging away in my little backwater, training my students (and their parents) how to behave at concerts and other public events. My band kids will now capture the beach balls at graduation and puncture them to stop a little of the madness.

[TUBAD83]

I believe that every generation looks at the preceding generation as out of control as they themselves age. For example (one of many) check out the kids of the "Jazz Age", the flappers. Their parents saw them as the end of civilization, yet they were the parents of WWII generation. Jitterbug and the music of the WWII generation was the end of civilization. Rock and Roll was the end of civilization. Heavy Metal and it's generation was. No, wait, Disco was the real end of civilization. Or was it Rap?

Are manners really dead or have they just changed? For that matter were there ever any manners that weren't just made up out of thin air by etiquette "authorities"?

It's perfectly natural for each new generation to come up with whatever it takes to differentiate themselves from their parents as it is just as natural for their parents to react in horror.

Each and every generation has its share of both idiots and good people. Sweeping generalities about whole generations is just narrow mindedness. Especially generalities based on observing the idiots.

I most definitely agree with lgb. And as for the "good ole days" of manners and civility, my parents recall very well how "great" it was back then--especially when my mother was "politely" asked to remove herself from a bus seat so a white gentleman could sit down and when my father was "politely" asked to leave a restaurant because the establishment "does not serve colored". And you wonder what happened? Really?

[tbn.al]

Quote from Jean M. Twenge the athor of Generation Me.

We live in a time when high self-esteem is encouraged from childhood, when young people have more freedom and independence than ever, but also far more depression, anxiety, cynicism, and loneliness. Today's young people have been raised to aim for the stars at a time when it is more difficult than ever to get into college, find a good job, and afford a house. Their expectations are very high just as the world is becoming more competitive, so there's a huge clash between their expectations and reality. More than any other generation in history, the children of Baby Boomers are disappointed by what they find when they arrive at adulthood. Generation Me will give Boomers new insight into their offspring, and help those in their teens, twenties, and thirties finally make sense of their generation.

I buy everything but the last sentence. I don't see them doing anything but codling their kids to keep them happy so they won't make waves thereby interfering with the parents lives and when that no longer works abdicating responsibility for their kids completely.

[Dylan King]

Isaiah 3:4 “ I will give children to be their princes,
And babes shall rule over them.
5 The people will be oppressed,
Every one by another and every one by his neighbor;
The child will be insolent toward the elder,
And the base toward the honorable.”

http://townhall.com/columnists/DennisPr ... ments=true

[tbn.al]

Dr. Spock's "baby book"

Someone gave my wife a copy at the hospital when our first child was born in 1974. Having nothing else to do while I watched her sleep, eat and feed the bably for two days, I read it. I was an ignorant, impressionable young man so it all sounded pretty good. When we got the baby home, I reccomended it to her. After a few pages she simply dropped it in the trash can, with the explanation, "This is the biggest pile of BS I've ever seen." It wasn't the first time she set me straight or the last. Another example of a man marrying above his station. We raised our kids the way her mother raised her. If it ain't broke..........

[ArnoldGottlieb]

Simple answer for me.
I graduated high school in 1985. My father told me I was wearing a tie, there was nothing up for debate, unless of course I was moving out of his house that evening.

I find it interesting that not so long ago high school graduates had the expectation of jobs, while a few years later people with advanced degrees are working in coffee shops.

Peace.
ASG

[Donn]

Looks to me like you're getting some west coast influence over there.

Out here, we don't really dress up unless under duress (i.e., continued employment.) Symphony, fancy restaurant, graduation, ... unless someone's paying me to dress up, you're not going to see that weird-o jacket & tie costumery. Been that way for a long time - I won't say forever, I'm not 100 years old, but I don't believe it's about kids who grew up in the '60s.

But I know what you're talking about, it seems hard for some people to take any occasion seriously. I couldn't believe the people yakking and laughing at the Temple Burn at Burning Man this year!

[Uncle Buck]

I believe that unless you happen to be independently wealthy, you have to dress up to the expectations of those you . . . need . . . to impress.

But, it still drives me crazy that a tie and jacket are standard business attire for men in our culture. When I was in Philippines a few years ago, I was impressed by the standard business attire of a plain, long, untucked, and open-necked white shirt. Very professional-looking.

I do fully realize that men really do have very little room to complain compared to what women in our culture are expected to wear.

[lgb&dtuba]

Business attire varies from place to place, too. I haven't had to wear a suit or tie at work for about 25 years. I'm in IT or whatever the current correct acronym is for what used to be called Data Processing and I'm a Systems Programmer (also an obsolete term for what I do). The 14 years before that I was required to wear a suit at work.

Someone has to die for me to put on a suit. Though based on the last couple of funerals I attended it won't be very long before only the deceased will be in a suit.

Now some may consider that a sign of the decline of our society, but frankly, I don't miss wearing a suit even a little bit.

[djwesp]

When were you last at an ATU graduation?

PM Sent.

[TUBAD83]

I remember both my high school and college graduations--both were very respectful, solemn, orderly, and utterly HORRIBLY BORING affairs. Had I to do my HS graduation again I would have gotten an air horn for each hand and the BIGGEST G___D____beach ball I could find! And THEN would have found an opportunity to tell the principal what a completely pompous, racist, arrogant A______ he was.

Just my way of saying LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE! Unless you're dying, homeless, jobless, your kids are trying to KILL YOU, etc. life has been kinda good to you right? ENJOY IT!

JJ

****This post has been moderator edited due to the TUBAD83's insistance on using offensive language in a public forum.*****

[Biggs]

And THEN would have found an opportunity to tell the principal what a completely pompous, racist, arrogant A_______ he was.
JJ

Did we go to school together? All kidding aside, I agree with you. Anyone who thinks a graduation ceremony is a serious occassion needs to get out more. It's a show for the parents to fawn over how great (in their eyes) that their kids are.

[TUBAD83]

As a tax paying father with college aged kids, it seems that the only people eligible for financial aid are those who are least likely to graduate and contribute back to society. Another "wealth redistribution" scheme?

Well you can blame that on the folks who thought and believed "separate but equal" was a great idea. And as for the "redistribution scheme"...please give that tired nonsense a rest...the vast majority of the wealth in this land is, and for the foreseeable future, will be in the "right" hands--right???

JJ