So what has happened...really...??

[Tubadork]

I remember both my high school and college graduations--both were very respectful, solemn, orderly, and utterly HORRIBLY BORING affairs. Had I to do my HS graduation again I would have gotten an air horn for each hand and the BIGGEST G___D____beach ball I could find! And THEN would have found an opportunity to tell the principal what a completely pompous, racist, arrogant A_______ he was.

Just my way of saying LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE! Unless you're dying, homeless, jobless, your kids are trying to KILL YOU, etc. life has been kinda good to you right? ENJOY IT!

JJ

HAHAHAHAHAHA, you drop the F bomb twice, said the A word but you won't say GD?
Just think it's kinda funny, don't care really what you post (I tend not to post profanity just because {although who knows, I may have, feel free to search the archives}) I'm just saying...

Bill

[TubaTodd]

The downfall of civility is the result of a collapse in the "Circle of Society".......for lack of a better term. It goes like something like this.


Family-----Parenting------Schooling-----success-----motivation--------Career/Job Field------Taxes (repeat)

The collapse of the Family (mother, father and 2.6 kids) structure where children were actually being RAISED (instead of UNLEASHED onto the world) started it. Of course that was killed by an increase in taxes on the family income decades ago. Once the Family unit started to fail...next went the parenting.

When I was a high school math teacher at a private school, it was clear that no matter WHAT I say or do discipline and intrinsic goals weren't going to be learned in the classroom. HELLO PARENTS!!!!! LEARNING STARTS AT HOME!!! HELLOOOO!!!! We as teachers should be teaching subjects and providing enrichment and NOT having to provide the discipline and parenting that the crappy parents are not providing. Worse yet....because your sorry *** isn't teaching disciple at home, all the effort that I am putting into trying to mold your child into a decent member of society is being overturned.

As another poster has said, it snowballs from there...

[TUBAD83]

From where did these bullcrap "race posts" suddenly emerge?

The topic of the thread is civility, not racism (or even "racialism").

As someone who has waited on tens of thousands of customers, without qualification I can tell you that older people (not "black" or "white" people) are - easily, on average - FAR MORE POLITE than are young people.

If race crap is, ultimately, dragged into EVERY socially-related argument - no matter how "off-topic" it is - the "shock/sympathy" impact of such comments is diluted. Is it best to try to garner sympathy recalling how daddy was talked to, or (rather) might it be better to demonstrate (probably as Daddy did) how to behave respectfully regardless of how one is treated by a given individual?

Oh, I see...This is better:

boooooo - stupid [@$$h0le] Principal !!! ....boooooo restaurants !!!!! .....booooooo civility !!!!

bloke "who does not duck when the race card is thrown...As it's been thrown too often, and the edges are well-worn; It's obvious which card it is before it is even played."

bloke,

I only sited 2 examples of how "civility and politeness" was (and STILL) used in the South, depending on who you are. No "race card" was "thrown"by me---now if you want to think it was, fine--thats your choice. Just save some of that indignation for the people who created the damn card (the whole deck for that matter) in the first place.

JJ "who knows that the race card will go away only when the entire deck is torn up"

[tbn.al]

Oh yeah! You played the card Jerry. Don't be so surprised when someone calls your hand on it. You might spend some time polishing up your grammar so you substitute real words for the profanity and still get your point across. You might also want to look into philosphy and debate for some ideas on reason and substantive argumentmentative strategies. You remind me a bit of my neighbor growing up who had a falling down house but always had a new Lincoln in the drive way. My Dad explained, "Son, the bank won't loan him a dime for a house, but the car dealer will. He has to play the cards he has." When you play the race card it signals to everyone out there that you don't have any other cards in your hand. The only thing you are going to get with the race card is sympathy, but only froom a very few folks. Is that what you are after? Sympathy?

[TUBAD83]

Oh yeah! You played the card Jerry. Don't be so surprised when someone calls your hand on it. You might spend some time polishing up your grammar so you substitute real words for the profanity and still get your point across. You might also want to look into philosphy and debate for some ideas on reason and substantive argumentmentative strategies. You remind me a bit of my neighbor growing up who had a falling down house but always had a new Lincoln in the drive way. My Dad explained, "Son, the bank won't loan him a dime for a house, but the car dealer will. He has to play the cards he has." When you play the race card it signals to everyone out there that you don't have any other cards in your hand. The only thing you are going to get with the race card is sympathy, but only froom a very few folks. Is that what you are after? Sympathy?

If you want to say I played the race card, that's your choice and your issue, not mine. As for "looking for sympathy", I really didn't see anything in my previous post that would give one the impression that I was looking for sympathy--lets be careful about assuming things.

Finally, tbn.al--I choose my words carefully when I post and sometimes I use profanity (by the way, profanity ARE real words--I believe you will find them in all the major dictionaries). Judging by your post, I do not think you are in no position to critique how I get my point across. Feel free to ignore my posts if they so offend you.

JJ "Y'all have a GOOD DAY!"
***Yet another moderator edited post***

[Dylan King]

This is from an older post of mine, but it is a true story and I think it is relevant to this topic.

So many people in this world lack the simple understanding of the second Great Commandment of "due unto others".

I was playing Pomp and Circumstance for graduation in my junior year back in 1991. I went to a huge inner-city LA high school and there were around 700 graduates, so we played for quite a while. Somewhere towards the end of the graduates walking up to get their diplomas, a graduating student behind me was "moved" in some way to sneak up behind me, grab the bell of my tuba, and PULL! To this day I have no idea why she would do this.

All I know is one second I am playing quarter notes, and the next my mouthpiece crashes through my front teeth, chipping both of them and tearing my lip in the process. I thought that I had been attacked and without looking I turned punched the chest of this person with all my might. This person flew onto the ground with the force of the hit, and it was then that I noticed it was a girl!

I had never noticed her before, but I could tell from her gold chains that she had gand affiliations. Only seconds later about ten people from the audience were bum-rushing the band. Mostly big black dudes. I was seriously afraid for my life for a few short seconds.

The band stopped playing immediately and all of my friends from the band, mostly big black dudes as well, formed a wall on that side of the band in front of me. The police were in action and our band director (David Sears, now a VP at NARAS and head of the Grammy's in the Schools program) got right up to the girls father while pointing at the girl. He looked him right in the eye and looked at the cop and told him "arrest this girl!"

By then LAPD had arrived, because the cops were pushing out the angry family members and the girl was in handcuffs. Mr. Sears told me to go home, and I ran out of there like Carl Lewis carrying a tuba. She did time for the crime and I recovered and learned to have an eye in the back of my head while I'm playing, which did come in handy a few times after this incedent.

You just don't know what people are going to do these days. So many people are self-only oriented and don't even know it. They are only thinking about getting something for themselves, and never giving out of love and concern.

The truth is in the Word.

I think that the use of foul language here on TubeNet reflects similar behavior we see in society today. The more a society pushes God away and embraces secular values, the less we will see of civility and manners. God will not bless America if America will no longer respect His values.

[Biggs]

As someone who has waited on tens of thousands of customers, without qualification I can tell you that older people (not "black" or "white" people) are - easily, on average - FAR MORE POLITE than are young people.

Seriously?

As someone who has read dozens of books about carnivorous megafauna, I can tell you that velociraptors are far more ferocious than grizzly bears.


Whether this is about age, race, height, or whether you prefer Oreos or Hydrox, I'll state without condition that there is nothing "polite" about the ignorant, hateful remarks that come out of my grandfather's mouth. He's 81. Old enough for you?

[Dylan King]

As someone who has waited on tens of thousands of customers, without qualification I can tell you that older people (not "black" or "white" people) are - easily, on average - FAR MORE POLITE than are young people.

Seriously?

As someone who has read dozens of books about carnivorous megafauna, I can tell you that velociraptors are far more ferocious than grizzly bears.


Whether this is about age, race, height, or whether you prefer Oreos or Hydrox, I'll state without condition that there is nothing "polite" about the ignorant, hateful remarks that come out of my grandfather's mouth. He's 81. Old enough for you?

There are always exceptions when one is generalizing. Your grandfather is obviously a poor example of a "great" generation.

It is unfortunate that your grandfather acts the way he does, but comparatively, as you gain experience with people over time, you will begin to see the degeneration of society. There was a time in this country where poor character was not tolerated, and after the "revolution" of the sixties, it became easier and easier for examples of poor character to get along in society without any shame.

We see it all over, even here on TubeNet. True values are a thing of the past. The past is the time when our older citizens were raised. Perhaps you can be an example to your grandfather, and remind him of a time when respect was respected.

[TUBAD83]

As someone who has waited on tens of thousands of customers, without qualification I can tell you that older people (not "black" or "white" people) are - easily, on average - FAR MORE POLITE than are young people.

Seriously?

As someone who has read dozens of books about carnivorous megafauna, I can tell you that velociraptors are far more ferocious than grizzly bears.


Whether this is about age, race, height, or whether you prefer Oreos or Hydrox, I'll state without condition that there is nothing "polite" about the ignorant, hateful remarks that come out of my grandfather's mouth. He's 81. Old enough for you?

There are always exceptions when one is generalizing. Your grandfather is obviously a poor example of a "great" generation.

It is unfortunate that your grandfather acts the way he does, but comparatively, as you gain experience with people over time, you will begin to see the degeneration of society. There was a time in this country where poor character was not tolerated, and after the "revolution" of the sixties, it became easier and easier for examples of poor character to get along in society without any shame.

We see it all over, even here on TubeNet. True values are a thing of the past. The past is the time when our older citizens were raised. Perhaps you can be an example to your grandfather, and remind him of a time when respect was respected.

My grandmother used to say the same things often...and what it really was about was she just did not like the changes that were happening and felt powerless to do anything about it. I still see young people exercise good manners and make positive contributions to society...some people think that ANY societal change is BAD which, of course, means we are just that much closer to "Armageddon" (which IMO some people hope will happen to justify their belief in it in the first place). Bottom line, people see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe. Those of you that are surrounded by all this "societal degeneration" should move to a better neighborhood. Just a thought.

[Donn]

I believe I am more polite than I was in my youth, would expect the same has occurred among my peers, and has generally occurred throughout history. Kids now-a-days ... will grow older, and more mature, as they have always done, as young adults have done, as middle-aged adults have done, etc.

But probably only in proportion to the time that we spend doing other things besides watching TV, which unfortunately from what I read may be a decreasing percentage of our lives. If we seem a little socially retarded these days, that could be part of it.

[tbn.al]

I just now noticed that the subtitle contains the phrase "from birth to adolescence". Maybe he stopped his advice at adolencence because he didn't have a clue as to how to handle them after that, once he had screwed them up so badly in childhood.

[rocksanddirt]

This is from an older post of mine, but it is a true story and I think it is relevant to this topic.

So many people in this world lack the simple understanding of the second Great Commandment of "due unto others".

I was playing Pomp and Circumstance for graduation in my junior year back in 1991. I went to a huge inner-city LA high school and there were around 700 graduates, so we played for quite a while. Somewhere towards the end of the graduates walking up to get their diplomas, a graduating student behind me was "moved" in some way to sneak up behind me, grab the bell of my tuba, and PULL! To this day I have no idea why she would do this.

All I know is one second I am playing quarter notes, and the next my mouthpiece crashes through my front teeth, chipping both of them and tearing my lip in the process. I thought that I had been attacked and without looking I turned punched the chest of this person with all my might. This person flew onto the ground with the force of the hit, and it was then that I noticed it was a girl!

I had never noticed her before, but I could tell from her gold chains that she had gand affiliations. Only seconds later about ten people from the audience were bum-rushing the band. Mostly big black dudes. I was seriously afraid for my life for a few short seconds.

The band stopped playing immediately and all of my friends from the band, mostly big black dudes as well, formed a wall on that side of the band in front of me. The police were in action and our band director (David Sears, now a VP at NARAS and head of the Grammy's in the Schools program) got right up to the girls father while pointing at the girl. He looked him right in the eye and looked at the cop and told him "arrest this girl!"

By then LAPD had arrived, because the cops were pushing out the angry family members and the girl was in handcuffs. Mr. Sears told me to go home, and I ran out of there like Carl Lewis carrying a tuba. She did time for the crime and I recovered and learned to have an eye in the back of my head while I'm playing, which did come in handy a few times after this incedent.

You just don't know what people are going to do these days. So many people are self-only oriented and don't even know it. They are only thinking about getting something for themselves, and never giving out of love and concern.

The truth is in the Word.

I think that the use of foul language here on TubeNet reflects similar behavior we see in society today. The more a society pushes God away and embraces secular values, the less we will see of civility and manners. God will not bless America if America will no longer respect His values.

I agree very much with your quoted section, but do not agree with your last paragraph. 'America' has never NEVER respected/embraced/followed the Word of God, and the example set by Jesus. We flail along talking a good line, and killing each other.

[eupher61]

to me, just as bad as playing the race card is playing the religion card.

[Dylan King]

It is not about race; it is about education.

well...maybe...??

- My grandfather didn't graduate from high school, but knew world history, advanced mathematics, and was a bank vice president.
- My closest friend has no college degrees, but is currently earning (I'm guessing, and I suspect correctly) a $1/4-million salary as a power plant manager, and (at past plant management jobs) has over-sought (and caught many stupid mistakes as well as intentional cost-overrun sabotages during) the construction of at least three power plants.

These people weren't formally educated, and (I believe) because of that, neither one is very easy to "fool". Further, they both show civility,respect, and courtesy towards those who don't know a tremendous amount of "stuff" about "stuff" - but who (in spite of their "ignorance") behave civilly, respectful, and courteous towards them.

bloke "who believes that a person doesn't really need to know a lot of 'stuff' to be able to 'get it' "

13 of the top 20 richest men in the world...

1. William Gates, III
Net Worth: $56.0 billion

Age: 51

Fortune: Self-made

Source: Microsoft

Country of Citizenship: United States

Residence: Medina, Washington, United States

Industry: Software

Marital Status: Married, 3 children

Education: Harvard University, drop out

3. Carlos Slim Helu
Net Worth: $49.0 billion

Age: 67

Fortune: Self-made

Source: Telecom

Country of Citizenship: Mexico

Residence: Mexico City, Mexico

Industry: Communications

Marital Status: Widowed, 6 children

Education: N/A

6. Sheldon Adelson
Net Worth: $26.5 billion

Age: 73

Fortune: Self-made

Source: Casinos, hotels

Country of Citizenship: United States

Residence: Las Vegas, Nevada

Industry: Gambling/Leisure

Marital Status: Married, 5 children

Education: City College of New York, drop out

8. Amancio Ortega
Net Worth: $24.0 billion

Age: 71

Fortune: Self-made

Source: Zara

Country of Citizenship Spain

Residence: La Coruna, Spain

Industry: Apparel

Marital Status: Married, 3 children

Education: High School, drop out

9. Li Ka-Shing
Net Worth: $23.0 billion

Age: 78

Fortune: Self-made

Source: Diversified

Country of Citizenship: Hong Kong

Residence: Hong Kong, Hong Kong

Industry: Diversified

Marital Status: Widowed, 2 children

Education: High School, drop out

10. David Thomson
Net Worth: $22.0 billion

Age: 49

Fortune: Inherited

Source: Inheritance

Country of Citizenship: Canada

Residence: Toronto, Canada

Industry: Media/Entertainment

Marital Status: Divorced, 3 children

Education: N/A


11. Lawrence Ellison
Net Worth: $21.5 billion

Age: 62

Fortune: Self-made

Source: Oracle

Country of Citizenship: United States

Residence: Redwood City, California, United States

Industry: Software

Marital Status: Married, 2 children

Education: University of Illinois, drop out

12. Lilliane Bettencourt
Net Worth: $20.7 billion

Age: 84

Fortune: Inherited

Source: L'Oreal

Country of Citizenship: France

Residence: Paris, France

Industry: Manufacturing

Marital Status: Married, 1 child

Education: N/A


15. Karl Albrecht
Net Worth: $20.0 billion

Age: 87

Fortune: Self-made

Source: Aldi

Country of Citizenship: Germany

Residence: Mulheim an der Ruhr, Germany

Industry: Retailing

Marital Status: Married, 2 children

Education: N/A

16. Roman Abramovich
Net Worth: $18.7 billion

Age: 40

Fortune: Self-made

Source: Oil

Country of Citizenship: Russia

Residence: London, United Kingdom

Industry: Oil/Gas

Marital Status: Married, 5 children

Education: Drop out

17. Stefan Persson
Net Worth: $18.4 billion

Age: 59

Fortune: Inherited and growing

Source: Hennes & Mauritz

Country of Citizenship: Sweden

Residence: Stockholm, Sweden

Industry: Retailing

Marital Status: Married, 3 children

Education: University of Stockholm, Associate in Arts/Science

19. Paul Allen
Net Worth: $18.0 billion

Age: 54

Fortune: Self-made

Source: Microsoft, investments

Country of Citizenship: United States

Residence: Mercer Island, Washington, United States

Industry: Software

Marital Status: Single

Education: Washington State University, drop out


20. Theo Albrecht
Net Worth: $17.5 billion

Age: 84

Fortune: Self-made

Source: Aldi, Trader Joe's

Country of Citizenship: Germany

Residence: Foehr, Germany

Industry: Retailing

Marital Status: Married, 2 children

Education: N/A

[Uncle Buck]

Not meaning to agree or disagree with anything already posted, but . . .
- because I am not wealthy enough to independently ensure the financial stability of my children and grandchildren;
- because I have seen the career limitations that many people impose on themselves by choosing not to pursue a formal degree (despite the notable exceptions - all of which include a generous dose of talent, hard work, AND luck);
- because I have been very close to some family members who find themselves trying to figure out how to go back to college later in life when their health prevents them from doing carpentry/construction/etc. work anymore;
- I will do everything in my power to motivate/inspire/help my children and grandchildren make the choice to pursue a formal degree as soon as possible - it only gets more difficult later.

[tbn.al]

Back to the original topic. This is what has happened.....The problem is not the little person in the video, it's the bigger one, and it crosses all territorial, racial, ethnic and economic boundries. WE raised a generation of spineless parents and they are raising a generation of obnoxiously selfish kids. It has to be all about THEM and the parents allow, even promote, that attitude. Thank You, Dr. Spock!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWkZ_StRjU0" target="_blank" target="_blank

[Donn]

Back to the original topic. This is what has happened.....The problem is not the little person in the video, it's the bigger one, and it crosses all territorial, racial, ethnic and economic boundries. WE raised a generation of spineless parents and they are raising a generation of obnoxiously selfish kids. It has to be all about THEM and the parents allow, even promote, that attitude. Thank You, Dr. Spock!

Oh, baloney. Kids have been little terrors since the mastodon days, and little angels too. If you go to the right places, you'll find plenty of little angels today. Would these places be little isolated areas that somehow escaped Spock's insidious influence? Don't bet on it. Blame it on Spock, commies, reefer madness, godlessness, TV, whatever suits your purposes (I'm going with TV), but don't pretend to have anything useful to say about it.

[ken k]

Part of the problem with the education system today is the lack of quality vocational training. If a student has a higher than average test score or IQ they are encouraged to go to college. The only kids going to Vo-tech are basically kids that can't do anything. You just do not get the higher quality kids going into trades. My friend runs an electrical winding company and cannot find a quality electrician anywhere. No one is learning how to make or fix things. It is very sad. A friend of mine who graduated with me was tops in our class and went into his father's oil company business. He is now running that business. The man is a smart as they come and runs a top notch business. Unfortunately people like him are few and far between.

My son is a case in point, top grades, very bright and an all around good kid. (if I must say so myself) The kind of kid you would want your daughter to date. But he has really no deseire to go to college even though they put him in CP classes. He just doesn't kow what he would major in. Meanwhile he is taking pre calc and physics and has no idea why. I wish he could take a mechanical drawing or design or art class of some kind because he has a great eye for design and color, etc but they keep pushing the other stuff on him that unless he goes into architecture or advanced sciences he will never use.

ken k

[tbn.al]

Oh, baloney. Kids have been little terrors since the mastodon days, and little angels too. If you go to the right places, you'll find plenty of little angels today. Would these places be little isolated areas that somehow escaped Spock's insidious influence? Don't bet on it. Blame it on Spock, commies, reefer madness, godlessness, TV, whatever suits your purposes (I'm going with TV), but don't pretend to have anything useful to say about it.

I'll bet you have a friend somewhere that has been a primary school teacher for the last 20 or 30 years. Buy them a cup of coffee and ask them about the differences they see in their classes then and now. I'll bet you the coffee tab they talk more about the lack of effective parenting than the do the problem kids. There have always been problem kids. Heck, a kid in my 5th grade class brought a knife to school and attacked a teacher, in suburbia, in 1957. There have always been angels too. There are just a bunch more of the former and fewer of the latter now, and we are losing ground. My wife is a 32 year 2nd grade teacher in one of the most affluent, highest testing, top of the heap public schools in America. The stories she comes home with is an indictment of our parenting as a society. It's been bad for a while and it's getting worse. I don't pretend to have anything useful to say about anything. If I did, someone somewhere might be listening. I've given up on trying to influence anyone. I just gripe a lot, and pray.

[Biggs]

I'll bet you have a friend somewhere that has been a primary school teacher for the last 20 or 30 years. Buy them a cup of coffee and ask them about the differences they see in their classes then and now. I'll bet you the coffee tab they talk more about the lack of effective parenting than the do the problem kids. There have always been problem kids. Heck, a kid in my 5th grade class brought a knife to school and attacked a teacher, in suburbia, in 1957. There have always been angels too. There are just a bunch more of the former and fewer of the latter now, and we are losing ground. My wife is a 32 year 2nd grade teacher in one of the most affluent, highest testing, top of the heap public schools in America. The stories she comes home with is an indictment of our parenting as a society. It's been bad for a while and it's getting worse. I don't pretend to have anything useful to say about anything. If I did, someone somewhere might be listening. I've given up on trying to influence anyone. I just gripe a lot, and pray.

I agree. Everyone should stop having children immediately.