BBb vs. CC Tubas

[Ice]

I have begun college and have been informed that I will be required to learn CC tuba. (currently on a BBb) Every time I asked, I never got an answer to justify this transition. So here it is- What's the difference between a BBb tuba and CC tuba in the 'real world'?

Obviously, pitched differently thus giving different fingerings to different notes. But what other differences are there? (or could someone give me a link to a page to explain this?) Thank you for your help.

[TubaNerd88]

CC Tubas have a much bigger and brighter sound. They can project their sound a lot more which is why most orchestras, mainly in the US, use CC tubas because their sound is much more immense than BBb tubas.

[Dan Schultz]

CC Tubas have a much bigger and brighter sound. They can project their sound a lot more which is why most orchestras, mainly in the US, use CC tubas because their sound is much more immense than BBb tubas.

Really! Where did THAT information come from?

[TexTuba]

CC Tubas have a much bigger and brighter sound. They can project their sound a lot more which is why most orchestras, mainly in the US, use CC tubas because their sound is much more immense than BBb tubas.

Really? Go tell that to Walter HIlgers....

[Bob Kolada]

CC Tubas have a much bigger and brighter sound. They can project their sound a lot more which is why most orchestras, mainly in the US, use CC tubas because their sound is much more immense than BBb tubas.

American-made CC tubas tend to have a better American sound than American-made BBb tubas.

Are both/either-of you guys high or something (kinda makes sense, talking about tubas online late at night and all.... )?!?!


Correction....

"CC tubas have a much bigger and brighter sound"
C tubas (I will not say CC for several reasons) might have a slightly brighter sound than their equal Bb (though most "similar" C and Bb tubas have major construction differences), but if both are in the hands of a skilled player (who's not biased either way ) a Bb tuba will have the potential for a bigger sound.

"American-made CC tubas tend to have a better American sound than American-made BBb tubas."
American made C tubas- Conn 5XJ, little Kanstul C, some reportedly lousy small Holton's, a few small Conn's, a VERY few Holton and York C's. Anything else (very limited models like King rotary C's,... excluded for real world reasons)?

American made Bb's- King, Martin, Holton, Conn, Reynolds, York,........ out the friggin wazoo!
Every one of those companies has probably made more Bb's than EVERY American C tuba made (except possibly the 5xJ series; possible slight hyperbole ), and most of those horns kick ***.



MY opinion?
C tuba advantages- better D and D# below the staff than, unfortunately, most Bb tubas' C and B, slightly higher probability (when comparing ALL C tubas to ALL Bb tubas) of better build quality, slightly better response (in my opinion negligible when compared to below*)

Bb tuba advantages- *better intonation, better sound*, cheaper , more of what most people really want in a large (which the "default" contrabass is) contrabass,...


Yes I DO like some large C tubas (small C tubas are a different story and one with which I have very little experience, though I prefer large Eb/F's on what most people would use small C's on) in spite of my apparent odds , but I really think that (at least for large contrabasses) Bb tubas are really where it's at.


I love this quote-

It seems silly to me to shun a horn for it's "BBb ness" when what you are trying to achieve is a bigger more BBb-like sound.

CC Tubas have a much bigger and brighter sound. They can project their sound a lot more which is why most orchestras, mainly in the US, use CC tubas because their sound is much more immense than BBb tubas.

Really! Where did THAT information come from?

I think it came from the "88" part.

[TexTuba]

American-made CC tubas tend to have a better American sound than American-made BBb tubas. A good American CC tuba and a good German or British BBb tuba, in the hands of a competent player, should be indistinguishable. If your college requires you to learn CC because they won't let you play on BBb, your college sucks (no offense). If your college requires you to learn CC, Eb and F just so that you can play them if you ever need to, then I agree with them wholeheartedly.

My goodness, where do you folks study at that you get this bogus information?! Demand a refund!!!

[timdicarlo]

One justification I've heard quite a bit is that the fingering patterns for sharp keys are a little easier on a C tuba than a Bb, so it tends to be preferred by orchestral players who deviate from flat keys more often than band players. This is by no means the definitive reason; from what I understand a lot of the pressure to switch to C is that it's trendy at the moment. You should definitely learn the tuning (as well as Eb and F, if you're majoring on the instrument), but in my humble opinion you should ignore the hype, play Bb and C and decide which one you want to invest in. Horns are pricey and there's no sense wasting your money on something you won't be happy playing.

[ThomasP]

Try a CC tuba...

There's a reason CC tubas are the prevailing choice for professional tuba players.

Yes some play BBb, but most play CC.

I remember the first time I played CC tuba...I was working on the Hindemith Sonata. I made a copy, wrote in the fingerings, and performed the piece less than 2 weeks later. I was truly sold on CC tuba after I tried it.

FWIW, the BBb tuba I was playing was a Yamaha 641 (supposed to be good right?) and the CC I played was some sort of Cerveny with a 4+1 setup (not a very exceptional instrument, but blew away the competition easily!).

[tubashaman2]

.

[NDSPTuba]

I'll give you a reason that has nothing to do with how either the BBb or CC tubas play. You WILL be taken more seriously by other tubaists if you play a CC tuba before you ever play a note.

Of the pro quality CC's and BBb's that I've played I found the CC's to speak easier. But that is just me and results may vary for everyone else.

[EdFirth]

As a furthering your musical education college guy learning to play All of the tubas is good . Since it is higher education. Fools will tell you why whatever horn their teacher told them they Had to play is superior(usually C). Teachers who pitch this are unenlightened. Learning C is one step. Yes they are easier to play, no they don't sound better in every setting.The top pros have C and BBb tubas as well as F and Eb. Like in golf you don't putt with a driver or drive with a putteralthough it is possible it's just more secure to use the club that was designed for that situation.In the USA the main horn of choice is the C and the others are specialty instruments but in Britian the main horn ib Eb and in Russia it's BBb.They are all valid and the only people who will really care are other tuba players and overly nosey bass bone players.Your collge is right, learn em' all then with your increased knowledge and musical exposure choose what you think will work best for your needs. And remember that it's a musical journey, not an arms race. Ed

[tbn.al]

overly nosey bass bone players Ed

Wha.......? Do those animals really exist? I always thought they were just a figament of overly sensitive tubists imagination.

[TubaNerd88]

It seems that I'm one of these "kids these days" people that seem to be floating around here. I'll state my reason as to why I made such a post.

I played on two different Bb tubas back during high school: A Cerveny 686 and a Miraphone 186, which are both very good tubas in my opinion.

I currently own a Thor, but that does not mean that it is the only C tuba I have played on. I'm going based off of what I hear as far as sound is concerned. In my opinion, C tubas give a bigger, brighter sound while Bb tubas give a darker, more to the core sound.

[pierso20]

Can somebody post a blindfold test for us to take?
Have the same phrase played at the same pitch on a Bb, C, Eb and F tuba, but in a random order that we don't know.
Then let us vote.
We'll see if we can recognize the instruments.
My own hunch:
We won't be able to tell them apart if the bore and the mouthpiece size is the same. In fact, if we compare a large bore C horn with a smaller bore Bb, we'll think the former is lower pitched.
I think all this stuff about is Bb better than C or Eb or F is just a question of fads and fashions and traditions.
But let's test it.
Can someone organize the experiment and post the files please?

Our studio class has done this often when listening to different interpretations (granted in recordings). We can often distinguish whether or not it is a bass or contrabass tuba, BUT almost could never tell what key to the respective "size" of horn. Sometimes too, when larger F tuba's (like the 822) are used, you can almost not tell that it is an F but sounds more like a small CC. Really, it's all a moot point. I would say though, if I was going to be an aspiring professional player I would play CC, JUST so I don't have to listen to the "you should play CC" crap all throughout my young career! Really, it doesn't matter entirely....

[Dan Schultz]

..... FWIW, the BBb tuba I was playing was a Yamaha 641 (supposed to be good right?)....

IMHO opinion... a Yamaha 641 is pretty close to being just a 'tuba shaped object'. OK for middle and high schools but not much in the way of the 'professional' tuba they are advertised as.

[imperialbari]

And you all probably know Schleppy’s professional motto:

“Better my tuba be flat than my tires! You see?”

K

[Bob Kolada]

Are there any almost-identical Bb and C tubas? The 186 and 1291 have different bodies between them, but are the most identical I can think of.

[imperialbari]

Are there any almost-identical Bb and C tubas? The 186 and 1291 have different bodies between them, but are the most identical I can think of.

Yamaha 621 in CC and BBb

[TUBAD83]

I have played in ensembles where all four tubas (BBb, CC, EEb, F) were used--not only could not tell which was which, but the intonation was great. It really just comes down to personal preference, just like pistons vs rotors.

By the way--Dan, I must respectfully beg to differ with you on the YBB 641. I had one for 3 years, used it for concert band, cutdown/show band, brass ensemble, and quintet work. A great horn and never had a problem with it. IMHO, a fine professional quality horn.

JJ

[jonesbrass]

..... FWIW, the BBb tuba I was playing was a Yamaha 641 (supposed to be good right?)....

IMHO opinion... a Yamaha 641 is pretty close to being just a 'tuba shaped object'. OK for middle and high schools but not much in the way of the 'professional' tuba they are advertised as.

I'll second that!

I'll third that sentiment. . . Never quite felt that particular model was all it was marketed as. . . YMMV, of course.