Why rebuilding top-actions (particular 4V comp) costs more $

[Daniel C. Oberloh]

Bloke speaks truth regarding top action valves.

Neat looking tuba:)

Thats nice. A beautiful tuba that someone shelled out time and or $$$ to refinish and the valves are still worn out.

I imagine the owner was real happy about that.

I am always amazed that there are "skillet-head" Technicians who will go to all the trouble overhauling an instrument, removing all the dents, buffing, applying baked on epoxy, etc. and skip rebuilding the valves. I mean, its not like you need to go seriously out of the way to do the additional work when the horn is already in pieces and going through such extensive corrections. It is only a matter of sticking it (the valve block and pistons) in a box and calling UPS. This is a rather old instrument, pre 30's tuba, so there would be little doubt that the valves would be worn if not outright shot. Even if they were not so, it is only prudent that they be rebuilt anyway as the rebuilt valves would work much better and last longer. Additionally there is always a possibility that the valves have other issues that are not obvious and would be corrected anywayin the valve rebuilding stage. Rebuilding the valves after the overhaul if completed is like buffing and plating the instrument before removing the dents!

Unless I am missing something regarding the valve issue, what were they thinking?!!

I suppose it was most probably the owner of the horn who was the real "skillet-head" having decided rebuilding the valves was a waste of there money. I forgot about that part. I apologize to the responsible Technician if this was the case. I will now put away my soap box and get back to work.

Daniel "who can't remember the last tuba or euphonium he rebuilt that did not get a valve rebuild" Oberloh

Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
Saving the world, one horn at a time...
www.oberloh.com

[Lew]

It seems obvious that the first thing to spend your repair money on is making sure the valves work and seal properly. As long as there aren't any leaks in any joints everything else is usually cosmetic. Somehow cosmetics are the first thing many people think of.

I learned this the hard way many years ago. I had a sousaphone put in "playing" condition, but didn't bother with the valve job. It's still unplayable because of the valves. If I had put the money into the valves at the time I'm certain it would be a much better player, rather than a nice ornament.

[Daniel C. Oberloh]

Your not alone in your thinking. I had a real nice customer who contacted me some time ago about fixing the valves on his J.W. Pepper Euphonium. The instrument had been given a very so-so dent job buffed and lacquered. I told him the base cost and because I have worked on a number of such instruments and know what to expect, warned him that there can be other problems that would add to the final cost. He sent it to a shop in the north end of his state because he said "they were closer". I was okay with that as it was his instrument to do with as he pleased. I thought it was funny later when I informed him that the UPS station was the same distance from his house regardless of who he sent his horn to. I suspect it was really that the other shop said they could do the job for $150. I knew that he was not getting what he was expecting but there was little I could do as this information came to me after the fact. Any way, what they did was sit on it for a while, clean it and send it back. Still the owner (a little embarassed) later called me and asked if I would do the job even though he had made the mistake of sending to someone else? I said sure. The horn was shiny but in really bad condition. The pistons looked like they had been nickel plated in a lab beaker which was probably done at the other shop. This had no impact on the valves accept for making them nickel colored. They were still a mess, very loose and worn and ratteled in the casings. I eventually got to work on the horn and made all the repairs needed to put it into good opperating order.

The job involved the following details:

Valve rebuild: removed (unsoldered ) valve section and necessary slide tubes.
Fabricate and install external screw threds (top and bottm) for valve caps on valve block.
Enlarged two lower ports no piston 1.
Replaced uppermost port on first valve piston, fabricated and installed bottom inserts on pistons 1 and 3.
Removed piston tops to facilitate proper repair of guide key screw holes. Soldered numerous holes and splits in pistons prior to plating. Prep. work completed 11/17, shipped 11/20 to Anderson Silver plating Co. Inc.
Fabricated replacement piston guides, perform needed additional fitting and hand laping of pistons to cylinders and assembly of tuning slides to casing assembly. solder , polish and spot lacquer. Necessary repairs to slide tubes performed at time of assembly.

The following page shows a few images of what was involved with repairing the badly damaged screw threds on that same horn.

http://www.oberloh.com/gallery/peppereuph.htm

You can now see why they did not rebuild the valves at the time it was overhauled. But why overhaul the horn in the first place!

Daniel C. Oberloh