It happened to me this morning

[imperialbari]

This is sad, but also a part of life with brasses.

From far down my memory comes a talk with a repairman, who has been death for about 20 years. He sometimes repaired leadpipe dents by taking out the 1st rotor and dropping a dent ball into the leadpipe. This takes a leadpipe cleaned out of lime and other dirt, and it takes immense care not to do damage to the rotor casing.

This tuba may be a one off model, but as far as I know the B&S modus operandi, they shuffled diverse parts into various models, but they rarely made one off parts. I would wonder very much, if they could not come up with a leadpipe for your tuba.

If they stock the size needed, you may even be able to be allowed the selection method, that Miraphone was said to use around 1970. Every tuba was tried with 3 leadpipes before the one working best was soldered on.

And then there are the costs, but these are beyond me.

Klaus

[Wyvern]

Hi Kurt, I would suggest you speak to Mark Carter. I sure he will be able to liaise with B&S and sort out for you.

[imperialbari]

I see your point Jonathan, but despite my liking of the internationalism of the internet music communities, I sometimes see detours in suggested solutions.

A friend of mine in the SF/Bay area is a highly respected dealer/importer of anything related to instruments for baroque and renaissance music plus modern derivates of these instruments. He recommends a certain Swiss made 4' long recorder, which I also would want to have eventually. If I bought it from him, I surely would get a good one, but the costs would be prohibitive due to the added shipping.

Kurt is in Germany and speaks/writes the language. Why mix an ever so competent Welshman into that equation? Before B&S’s merger with JA I communicated with them about them making an oval alto horn for me with a different 3rd slide wrap allowing for better pitch adjustment. They were willing to do so, but wanted me to stay in Markneukirchen a week while they made that horn. I found that out of proportion, and nothing happened. Since then I found a used sample on German eBay, and for the much less costs I can live with that instrument.

If I were Kurt, I would either take contact via his local repairman, or I would phone B&S and make an appointment with them. If they wanted so, I would ship the tuba for them to assess the problem and its potential solutions before I went there.

This style of leadpipe wrap may no longer be made, but B&S may still have the original mandrel.

Klaus

PS: Seeing your next posting, Kurt: Is the F-to-Eb conversion done in the leadpipe or later in the body?

If the latter, then maybe an existing F leadpipe model will do a perfect job.

[tubamirum]

That pipe can be fixed by any good brass repair person.

[imperialbari]

As I remember it, Kurt is in the center of the previous West Germany. There are several competent repair people all over Germany. Only they are spread a bit oddly. When I was in Kiel in 1994, there wasn’t a strong brass workshop there. And Kiel after all is the capital of one of the states with opera and all. Neighbouring Lübeck is better off with the Amrein shop, but the proximity to Hamburg pulls the shops away from that province.

Kurt, we could do this privately as we have worked together before, but I think your problem might have a wider interest. I don’t have my very best eye day this Sunday, but my galleries hold several B&S tubas, so that it might be possible to find a model with a relevant leadpipe for your Eb.

I just found an interpretation of one of your informations: the leadpipe expansion right before the valve block. The Weltklang Eb likely has a uniform bore through the valve block. Therefor the leadpipe from a Symphonie F had to be expanded, as it was intended to enter a valve block with a gradual bore expansion.

The newest index for my Yahoo groups based galleries is here.

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Yo ... %20format/

Klaus

[imperialbari]

Klaus,whilst browsing your picture galleries regarding Weltklang Tubas,I found several pics of interest,do you know all the sources of your pics ???

Kurt

The nice version is that I have saved a lot of interesting brass photos otherwise only available on the web for a shorter period. Aside from loosing my source material from the spring of 2002 through the spring of 2003 due to a crashed disk, I have material to trace the ownership of most of the gallery entries. However I never use it myself that way, and I don’t make my source material available to other. The only exception is that I have been able to assist in killing a few scams.

As for your current problem, bloke expresses my opinion only in a much more specific way. If there are no cracks and no red spots, I see no reason to scrap that leadpipe. If nothing else you will avoid a lot of scars on your tuba. And if you are very zealous and want to spend the extra money, bloke’s procedure applied further down the leadpipe may remedy older and less lucky repairs.

Klaus

[Mike-ICR]

I completely agree with Bloke. I use the same basic technique and it works very well. Especially a nice smooth dent like that should come out relatively easily and with very good results. Any competent brass tech with the proper tooling can repair that and any good brass tech could doll up the previously repaired areas using the same technique. Unless there is something else that I can't see from the pics I seriously doubt replacing the mouthpipe is necessary. Come to think of it, if you don't send it back to the maker to replace the mouthpipe you would just have to wait for the new pipe to arrive and STILL have to bring the horn to a good tech for proper installation! You could save yourself the frustration of finding a replacement, the money of buying a replacement and the wait for shipping the replacement. IMO it's totally worth a road trip to a good tech and the 2 hour wait (maybe) for a very good job.

[oedipoes]

If a good tech would be in decent distance I wouldn´t bother !!!
Unfortunately there is none,and I don´t like to take it to a suspicious dent basher.
Otherwise,I agree !!!

Basically it comes down to the issue of a factory being able to supply spares even after decades or not,doesn´t it ??

Kurt

"Adams" in The Netherlands or Belgium would maybe not be too far away?
They are well-known for repairs.
http://www.adams.nl

[Mike-ICR]

If a good tech would be in decent distance I wouldn´t bother !!!
Unfortunately there is none,and I don´t like to take it to a suspicious dent basher.
Otherwise,I agree !!!

Sorry, I obviously misunderstood. I don't know your area but from what I've read here it sounds like there are at least a few shops worthy of consideration. My point is that you will still need to get the new pipe installed. Personally I wouldn't trust a "suspicious dent basher" to install it any more than I would trust them to bash out the dents! You'll have to get the horn to a good tech or back to the factory for installation anyway. In my experience new mouthpipes almost never fit perfectly right out of the box. The dent bashers nearby will probably do a substandard job. If B+S doesn't have the part I'm sure they would make it for you or even better make you a CUSTOM one.

[Roger Lewis]

The horn appears to be a copy of an Alexander 163 (older model) as they used this exact shape leadpippe going into the first valve at an angle. I would even look at possibly getting them to make one up for you as they would have all the details on this leadpipe design. You might need to send them the OD measurements so they make it to the right size.

One thing to note is that, due to very small differences in the manufacturing process (especially on a horn of that age) you might wind up with a leadpipe filled with either pitch or lead so that it can be shaped to exactly match the instrument. Once the pipe is bent properly then the pitch or lead would be removed before putting it on the horn.

With a factory pipe for a horn that age, when things weren't quite as well detailed as they are today, there would be a good chance that it would fit poorly when installed. I would look at having a local person remove it, ship it to Mattias for the repair, and then have the local repair person re-install it when it was shipped back to you.

Just some food for thought.

Roger

[tubeast]

Kurt,

wende Dich doch mal an die Firma Monke in Köln. Das sollte nah genug sein, Du gibst an Du seist aus der Kölner Gegend.
Wenn sie selbst sowas nicht machen, sollten sie Dir zumindest einen vernünftigen Metallblasinstrumentenmacher nennen können, der in der Nähe arbeitet.
Auch Herr Sokollies in Gelsenkirchen (Firmiert unter "Musik Hermuth") könnte Dir weiterhelfen.

Gruß Hans

[tubajazzo]

Hi Kurt belltrouble,

there are more than just one brass repairman in Cologne and your region. I suggest this guy:

http://www.buechelmusik.de/ (sorry only in german language)

He is in Bonn, not so far, and his speciality is making custom mouthpipes (besides handmade trumpets and other nice things). Show him your instrument and he will suggest a solution.
btw I did not post for a longer time here...my account was inaccessible somehow for me. So I made a new registration now just for another Weltklang tuba owner! (I have one of those Bb-tubas)

Gerd

[Tubaryan12]

It happened to me this morning

and it happened to me tonight.