Schillaphone 186

[MartyNeilan]

Looking for a horn suitable for quintet and the occasional solo, but still with enough guts to be able to punch through an orchestra, I decided to take a chance on the new but highly regarded Schiller CC tuba. The horn is basically a copy of the newer generation Miraphone 186-5U CC with thicker brass and no bell garland. Despite some of the previous attempts coming out of China meeting with mixed reviews, I have yet to read anything significantly negative about their 5 valve CC.

I went through the horn top to bottom, and the tuning is as good as or better than any Miraphone 186 I have tried. From pedal C to G above the staff, I checked every note. Fifth partial is a little low as on the 186 and most horns. I push in on D or use 4, Eb is 23 and E is 12. 1st slide works OK, I will probably use a thinner grease on it. Once it breaks in it should be fine; the tubes are perfectly aligned. Worst case, I may have to lap it slightly but it should be fine after break-in. If I wanted to lip a little, I could probably play the E open. Everything else is by-the-book fingerings. I am slightly disappointed that the 4th valve slide is only half as long as the outer tubes would lead you to believe - you can only pull about 3-4 inches instead of 6 to 8. However, that is not a big issue on a 5 valve CC (It would be on a 4 valve horn.)

Ergonomics are as good as the horn it was modeled after. The first thing I did was remove the thumb ring; I don't miss it a bit. 1st, 4th, and 5th slides are extremely accessible, 3rd is just a little harder to get to but still very available. The 5th valve loop has dual slides so you can set it in back and fine tune on top in the low register. The leadpipe seems a little lower than I remember on a 186; this is good for students or for guys like me (5'7").

The horn appears to be solidly built of thick brass. If feels heavier than a 186; much heavier than the older vintage 186 horns. The valves work very well, although the external linkage is not quite as robust as the horn it is patterned after. Spring tension is high; I like that but others may want them adjusted to a lighter touch. I spot checked the alignment on one of the valves and it appeared good in both up and down positions.

The sound is outstanding with both large and small mouthpieces, giving this horn the flexibility to be a band, orchestra, quintet, or solo instrument. With the heavy gauge brass, the sound is in some ways even better than the Miraphone it is modeled after; it holds together very well at high volumes. I played some of the Vaughan Williams, Gregson, and John Williams on it today using a Bobo Solo mouthpiece and would feel comfortable playing any of them on this tuba if I did not have an F. I also played some excerpts including Wagner and Tchaikovsky. With the massive Warburton-Neilan mouthpiece and the heavy construction, the horn is not prone to excessive "barking" that some Miraphones are known for. The low register just pops out on this horn and is surprisingly meaty. Although it does not have the "girth" of a 6/4, the horn definitely has enough volume potential to be used anywhere while still maintaining a characteristic tuba sound.

The good:
Thick wall construction
Solid sound
Outstanding intonation
Great low register
Very versatile horn
The price!!!!

Needs improvement:
4th valve slide should be full length
Valve linkages
Rear valve caps do not have the adjustment screws the Miraphone caps have
Factory slide grease is too thick
Lacquer seems thin in some spots
Case does not appear designed for heavy duty use

I will definitely be keeping this tuba and playing it professionally. I plan on using it at a wedding this weekend and a brass quintet performance in early November. I may even use it on an orchestra gig in two weeks.

[pierso20]

I just wonder how long until the company realizes they can bring the price up more and still be competitive...

Glad you like the horn!

[MartyNeilan]

I just wonder how long until the company realizes they can bring the price up more and still be competitive...

If they charge much more they enter the used market of the instrument they copied.

They're pretty much charging at the top of their market now.

Depends on where you buy it. I got mine off ebay for a little under two grand, including shipping. Can you get a decent used 4 valve BBb for that price if you look hard enough? Sure. A 5 valve CC that plays in tune with itself for that price? Three grand seems to be the entry point for that.

[MaryAnn]

I've been interested to try one of their compensating euphs, but the "no return only exchange" policy is preventing me.

MA

[Chadtuba]

Does anybody know how the rest of the horns play? Would they make a decent horn for use in a HS or JH setting? These would settle real nice on my budget, but if they aren't any good then I wouldn't want to wast the schools money.

[MartyNeilan]

Really, your "needs improvement" list is all pretty minor...

BINGO

For under two grand, I have a horn I can take to any gig, music sight unseen, and feel comfortable with it.

[vintage7512]

Anyone have experience with the Schiller b flats? The $1300 for the 4 piston version suddenly looks like a good deal, if it plays like the 5 valve C.

[bisontuba]

HI-
Matt Walters has an excellent discussion on Chinese tubas in general on Steve Dillon's website--click on new instruments, click on tubas, and click on 'a note from Matt.'
Regards-
mark
jonestuba@Juno.com" target="_blank

[UTSAtuba]

I think that if they would make a copy of the 188 or 291 (at their current quality level at the same price point) they would sell a whole lot of tubas.

I was thinking that exact same thing after reading Marty's review (and another recent Schiller CC review). Any Schiller reps out there listening?

Joseph

[TubaTodd]

This is a very interesting topic. It reminds me of this article on the Chinese iPhone clones.

http://www.popsci.com/iclone

If my instinct is correct and the Chinese manufacturing influence surges further, I can definitely see clones of other popular tubas (Meinl Westons, Yamaha's, etc)....IF the demand is there. I could also see a market for people with good repair skills marketing modified Chinese horns. I seem to remember a small company buying cheap OLP clones of Ernie Ball VanHalen Guitars and dressing the frets and neck, doing minor upgrades and providing nice quality Ernie Ball clones at very reasonable prices. Perhaps that is what Dillon Music is doing with their Dillon line.

[bort]

This is a very interesting topic. It reminds me of this article on the Chinese iPhone clones.

http://www.popsci.com/iclone

If my instinct is correct and the Chinese manufacturing influence surges further, I can definitely see clones of other popular tubas (Meinl Westons, Yamaha's, etc)....IF the demand is there. I could also see a market for people with good repair skills marketing modified Chinese horns. I seem to remember a small company buying cheap OLP clones of Ernie Ball VanHalen Guitars and dressing the frets and neck, doing minor upgrades and providing nice quality Ernie Ball clones at very reasonable prices. Perhaps that is what Dillon Music is doing with their Dillon line.

Isn't that kind of how TubaExchange started with the St. Pete's?

[TubaTodd]

This is a very interesting topic. It reminds me of this article on the Chinese iPhone clones.

http://www.popsci.com/iclone

If my instinct is correct and the Chinese manufacturing influence surges further, I can definitely see clones of other popular tubas (Meinl Westons, Yamaha's, etc)....IF the demand is there. I could also see a market for people with good repair skills marketing modified Chinese horns. I seem to remember a small company buying cheap OLP clones of Ernie Ball VanHalen Guitars and dressing the frets and neck, doing minor upgrades and providing nice quality Ernie Ball clones at very reasonable prices. Perhaps that is what Dillon Music is doing with their Dillon line.

Isn't that kind of how TubaExchange started with the St. Pete's?

Perhaps. I seem to remember the story of St. Petes having to do with Vince being impressed by the sound from a tuba he heard in Russia. Long story made short...he ordered a bunch of them. For the St. Petes to truly match the OLP model I mentioned, they would have to be individually looked over for quality, have minor tweaks done and perhaps some upgrades to make them competitive with a more expensive "original." I have no idea if TE does any modifications or tweaks to the St. Petes.

[TubaTodd]

Before I forget. WWBW has a line of Allora horns. The tubas are Miraphone clones. I also seem to remember hearing about a B&S PT6 clone by Allora. Has anyone ever seen one of those "in the wild?" Perhaps Roger Lewis could enlighten us.

[bort]

Oh, I might be mixed up. It might have been the German company that sold the St. Pete's long ago. They would buy them from Russia, get the valves and linkages reworked and then sell them as better than new.

[Chadtuba]

Before I forget. WWBW has a line of Allora horns. The tubas are Miraphone clones. I also seem to remember hearing about a B&S PT6 clone by Allora. Has anyone ever seen one of those "in the wild?" Perhaps Roger Lewis could enlighten us.

I had the allora 186 for a couple of years and loved it. It was almost identical to the Miraphone and played almost as well. It was a heavier gauge metal so I liked it for use in the HS band programs I was teaching in at the time. The only reason I sold it was to fund the purchase of my 983 otherwise I'd probably still have it. I do know that it is still in use and the current owner is very happy with it.

[Uncle Buck]

I may be mistaken, because I certainly am not a St. Pete expert. I do not believe they ever were intended as a "clone" of any existing, popular manufacturer or model. The Asian tubas certainly are intended as clones.

[bort]

I may be mistaken, because I certainly am not a St. Pete expert. I do not believe they ever were intended as a "clone" of any existing, popular manufacturer or model. The Asian tubas certainly are intended as clones.

Right...I was only talking about an example of the process: "new but not great" --> some repairs --> better

[DavidB]

.

[bigbob]

That's a good looking horn is that the copy of the 186?? ....................................................bigbob http://www.rgisculptures.com" target="_blank

[DavidB]

That's a good looking horn is that the copy of the 186?? ....................................................bigbob http://www.rgisculptures.com" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Yes, it's the Miraphone 186 CC 5v copy.

TTYL
David