Yamaha 641

[vintage7512]

What is it about this tuba that no one likes? I played one and it had some intonation issues that seemed workable, and it had a big 'German' sound. It was also built like a tank. Yamahas are not favored in these forums (aside from the big F) and I was wondering everyone's thoughts. Are they inconsistent? Do they breakdown and need repair a lot? Are the intonation issues intractable? I found one in solid condition for $2000.00 and am considering it. Thanks for any info. Steve

[vintage7512]

Thanks for the reply. I went to the BBC and played one for about a half hour today and it was muddy and indistinct on faster passages. I love the big sound on slower legato stuff but I play a lot of quintet and need a lighter touch instrument. Maybe a smaller instrument such as a MW 20 or a mira 186/4. I also really prefer pistons - I think they are faster. Thanks so much for the feedback - I am very appreciative.

[bort]

For me, they're not bad, there are just things I like better. If you liked the one you played and have the cash for it, buy it. You will always be able to sell a 641 again for $2,000.

[iiipopes]

I respectfully disagree with the "sturdy" part. All Yammy tubas I have played have valve problems from the casings being too thin, and a repairman friend of mine says that about half of his work is re-rounding Yammy valve casings of all models, not from abuse or neglect, but from deforming just from handling from being so thin.

[Davy]

The one I have owned for the past 1.5 years is a solid horn (and is also for sale!)...nothing really wrong with it, functionality-wise, and has a good sound

[vintage7512]

Well, I went to the BBC and played one they have on sale for 4400 and I was surprise to really like the power and sound I could get. I even had a strong range up above the staff with it, and intonation was acceptable. What I didn't like was how fast passages were muddy, especially when slurred, on the horn. No matter how much air I pushed through (and it will take a lot of air to over blow!) I couldn't get all the notes to come out. Maybe the rotors were slow, maybe I am not used to it, but it just had no 'nimbleness' for lack of a better word. I play a lot of quintet, as well as band, and I want a more nimble horn with better articulation. I guess I am still looking, and liking my old beater 2341 more and more. Steve

[jonesbrass]

I also really prefer pistons - I think they are faster.

I believe Oystein Baadsvik would disagree with you . . . seems like he posted somewhere how rotors are acutally faster due to shorter throw . . .
In any event, most likely unless you fingers are faster than the valves you're playing, it's probably not a valve issue, but a mind-finger-tongue coordination issue WRT speed.

[samulirask]

I also really prefer pistons - I think they are faster.

I believe Oystein Baadsvik would disagree with you . . . seems like he posted somewhere how rotors are acutally faster due to shorter throw . . .
In any event, most likely unless you fingers are faster than the valves you're playing, it's probably not a valve issue, but a mind-finger-tongue coordination issue WRT speed.

I agree with that. Actually piston valves felt quite difficult after several years of playing only rotary valved tubas.

To the OP: The problems you´re experiencing may be due to being just not used to rotary valves. The tuba feels different than with the pistons, the notes don´t "lock" into places in the same way than with the pistons. The Yamaha tuba you did talk about is not bad at all for what I´ve played it, so why don´t you give it a chance.

[Grand_Patou]

Hi all,

Here is my experience regarding the YBB-641 that I owned for the last 28 years. It means for sure that I went through a lot of experiences with it.

1) If the horn your tried is in very good shape, at 2000 $ you should buy it right away. Depends, how old is it.

2) During all those years, noone really told me what kind of mouthpiece I should really use. I start with the standard mouthpiece given in the case. Very poor. I used also a Roger Bobo symphonic mouthpiece. Wrong again beacuse it's more oriented for F tubas. I bought a PT-88+ that gave a more powerful sound but so unsteady for the control. Finally, I receive a JK 1A mouthpiece and NOW, I could tell you that I have power in different registers of the horn as well as having great control on it.

3) Now, let's talk about the valves. I would say that didn't take a very good care of the horn. So my personal TANK, was useful to survive all those years. Nevertheless, I got it revised and checked by Ron Partch of Toronto for a total clean up. I had so many problems on it that is cost me a lot. BUT, the results was amazing, astonishing to say the least. That guy knows about Yamaha horns. The valves were a big problem and now, I would be able to play the Czardas or the Flight of the Bumblebee anytime. Problem is that I'm not that good technically to play them (sigh).

4) Anyhow, that horn, from my point of view suffered from marketing promotion. Most Canadian music stores have them is stock but I would say that Yamaha do not invest that much in the field. Based on what I saw on TubeNet as well, I could tell that Yamaha is not a good seller new or used is US because, simple fact, other companies are very agressive on the US market. If you do such promotion, people are more oriented to buy what is more promoted. But I would say that horn could beat a lot of well known or similar tubas.

5) Also, if you were in Europe, the are more oriented to buy BBb tubas most of the time. In North America, F and CC tubas have more the quote.

6) For the intonation now. I would say, that most tubas have minor or major intonation problems. Well, welcome is the field of tuba world. As long as you can figure what are the problems, you can probably find a proper solution. So, the YBB-641 have its owm problem. The middle range, is for me the trickiest of all. You have to work more between F (under first line) to the F (second line). Over the F second line and under F under first line, you have a awesome powerful instrument that could cover a symphonic orcherstra and more. Below the fourth line under, the E, Eb are easy but after that you loose some power. You have to be well centered on the mouthpiece to get a great bottom. It's a bit pitchy too.

7) For those of view who tried the YBB-641 at BBC, because I tried it too on vacation last september, the horn had valves problems, fixable but it was a bit stuffy for some notes. If I compare my horn with that one at BBC, I won't never buy that one. Ron Partch made the proper corrections.

Over all, I would consider this instrument well structured and well built (Ron Partch told me that). He is so right. Take time for a proper try out and to conclude with a positive note: 2000$ is a steel.

Good luck. Keep me posted and if you need further details do not hesitate to contact me anytime.

Regards,

Patrick
YBB-641 owner serial number 1084
Montreal