.795 Bore on my Cerveny F

[jmerring]

I am learning to play F tuba (or trying). I bought the Cerveny F on e-*** a couple weeks ago and have been checking out the range. It has a very large and open lower (pedal, too) sound; which suprised me. The reason for that, I have determined, is that the bore is .795. More to my suprise is that the horn seems to be a 3/4 sized F (4 valves). That bore is bigger than my Miraphone 186 (BBb). I did not realize that a small horn could have a big bore (comparitively). Oh; the upper end seems to be quite easy to play, up to about middle G. I think I have an enjoyable learning experience ahead!!

[MartyNeilan]

Hey Jim, have you decided to keep the horn?

I am still happy with my horn. I performed the Frackenpohl quintet on it today at Lee U, and it was well received. The trombone player in our quintet actually said he preferred it to my 4/4 CC (because of its brighter, clearer timbre, a better blend in his opinion.) The Cerveny really sings on some of those tuba solo lines (like the last line of the Blues mvt) in a way that the CC just didn't. Of course, you do have to deal with the typical rotary F tuba "weirdness" in the medium low range - about Bb to Db. Below that, the horn plays incredible thanks to the big bore Quint 6th valve.

I really think of them as 4/4 due to the bell throat and bow sizes, just less bell flare than some other comparable F tubas. They won't move earth in the low register, but can put out plenty of strong sound without breaking up in the typical F tuba money range. Rember that the monsters like the 45SLP are considered 6/4 F tubas (and have a very different timbre.)

P.S. My horn tops out at high C (octave above middle C). But, in the right hands, I'm sure it could keep going.

[MaryAnn]

If I had studied acoustical engineering, I think I'd be making leadpipes for F rotary tubas. From the little I think I know, it seems to be leadpipe tapers and also bell tapers that lock the notes in on an instrument. French horns have quite a few makers of custom leadpipes, and many people will put a Lawson or Patterson leadpipe on an old conn and rave about the difference. I don't know why tuba makers are behind french horn makers in this respect, but I think they should catch up.
The Lawson leadpipes are "pipes within pipes" with an apparent "normal" looking leadpipe on the outside, and an inner leadpipe with complicated additive tapers on the inside. There IS science to this, but few have applied it yet.
MA, who thinks this is a job for Rick Denney

[Art Hovey]

French horns and trumpets have long leapipes. By that I mean they are a significant fraction of the instrument's overall length. Tubas tend to have shorter leadpipes, so making changes in a tuba leadpipe will have less effect than it might on a french horn or trumpet. The leadpipe on the Chicago York tuba is actually comparable to the backbore of a trumpet mouthpiece. I have replaced leadpipes and valve sections on several old tubas and have found that the operation had very little effect on intonation. Response was improved, but the intonation quirks of the original horn were still there.
I agree that it would be wonderful if somebody sold custom tuba leapipes, but I suspect that the incredible diversity among tuba models would make such an enterprise unprofitable.

[Rick Denney]

...There IS science to this, but few have applied it yet.
MA, who thinks this is a job for Rick Denney

In my opinion, the science is too complex to allow a reasonable analytical approach. Given the level of experience and the relatively low cost of fabrication, the empirical approach is probably cheaper, though it may not always achieve the optimum.

There's more to it than the leadpipe, but I agree that the leadpipe is particularly important. I recall Bloke's report of changes resulting from the installation of a different leadpipe on Matt Good's 2165--changes that, as I recall, are part of what makes a 2265. (And Art is probably right--those improvements weren't related to intonation nearly as much as to overall response.)

As for this being anywhere near my domain, the very thought of pulling tapers in a leadpipe using draw rings or tapered mandrels gives me a headache.

Rick "who will stick with keyboard conjecture" Denney