Are you a 124 push or a 14 pull kinda player?

[Bob Kolada]

If You´re good enough to worry about this, You´re desperate enough to go out and find a decent used horn with five ore more valves.

You're right. Those Fafners/rotary Willsons/huge Rudy Bb's/..... do kinda suck!

[pwhitaker]

Mine doesn't. In fact both 1-2-4 as well as 1 pulled + 4 works just fine on my old 5/4 4 valve Rudy BBb. Low C (1-2-3-4 with 4 pulled) is dead on. I sold my 5 valve BBb 1291 after I got the Rudy. You can lip the really big horns about 15 cents on either side of the note. The false tones are great as well - my Conn 2J is very easy and accurate to play down there.

[J.c. Sherman]

Miraphone 184-4U CC - 124 push 1 slightly...
Kalison DS CC - 124 push 1 all the way (5th tuned to Db 235)
Alexander 164 5 valve - 45
YFB 621 - 45, push 5
Had a Conn 52J - 124 push (really short 1st on that horn)
Had an Alex 163 4 valve - 14 yank like he||

Just a few samples...

J.c.S.

[jeopardymaster]

4-5 on the Gnagey and Neptune. But on my old 184 (5th is 2 whole steps) low F locks in so well using 124 that I don't even have to push. 34 is a hair flat.

[Art Hovey]

I usually use 12+4, but sometimes 1+4 with a pull (on either 1 or 4) is more convenient. A few years ago I made a Frankentuba out of an old Conn which originally had three top-action valves. I put on a Conn Sousaphone valve section and grafted a 4th valve on, using tubing that had much larger bore. (I think it was around 0.780".) It turned out that when the 4th valve slides were set for F and C to be in tune, the low Eb was right on with 1+4.

[iiipopes]

I tried the various low Eb combinations last night on my 186 detachable with the St Pete replacement upright bell. My experience is lining up with a lot of other Miraphone experiences:

"false pedal" open: in tune, but "grainy."
1+4 pull: in tune, but for some reason a little darker tone
3+4: in tune when I pushed 3, but intonation not as stable
1+2+4 shove 1: right there.

[iiipopes]

Besides, how do I push 124 if all my slides are already pushed in all the way to play in-tune in higher regions ?

Most guys have the #1 circuit cut @ 1/2 to 5/8 inch short so the 5th partials (midline D on a CC and 2nd space C on a BBb) can be shoved to play in tune. Then 2 is set just a hair out so 1+2 is not so sharp, then 3 is pulled so 2+3 is in tune, and 4 is set either in tune or slightly flat so 2+4 is easily lippable. That leaves one slide pull for the problem notes: #1,which on well-designed tubas is engineered to be the slide to "ride throttle" on.

One more thing: I want ONE slide to move. Ever. Actually, I want NO slide to move, just valves. Anything else would be too complicated for my simple mind.

Buy setting up the horn as above, if your horn has fairly wide "slots" that can be easily lipped, and if you use the alternate fingerings for the 5th partials as necessary, you would rarely, if ever, have to move a slide for most conventional repertoire. I don't like to move slides that much, either. If I wanted to move slides all day, I'd go get a bass bone.

[Lee Stofer]

I've finally met the right horn. My 1923 York model 712 is right-on with either open privileged tone or 1-2-4. I tend to use the open for lower volume notes, and 1-2-4 is good if the note is Forte or more.

[tbn.al]

I've finally met the right horn. My 1923 York model 712 is right-on with either open privileged tone or 1-2-4. I tend to use the open for lower volume notes, and 1-2-4 is good if the note is Forte or more.

Yes, but have you met the right tractor? That is the question.

[Bob Kolada]

Most guys have the #1 circuit cut @ 1/2 to 5/8 inch short so the 5th partials (midline D on a CC and 2nd space C on a BBb) can be shoved to play in tune. Then 2 is set just a hair out so 1+2 is not so sharp, then 3 is pulled so 2+3 is in tune, and 4 is set either in tune or slightly flat so 2+4 is easily lippable. That leaves one slide pull for the problem notes: #1,which on well-designed tubas is engineered to be the slide to "ride throttle" on.

I almost never pull for 12. I really actually can't remember the last time I did that on ANY tuba (though my unit's 187 seems to be a bit lower on Ab and G as compared to Eb and D; if I played it more I think I would just set it in place and get used to it). I also always tune 4 for 4 unless I am playing in B, E,... Which I never play that horn on anyways.
24 B natural will slot, but low E really needs the pull. I also usually don't have a 5th partial problem with most tubas, though on my King Eb I think I need to shorten the main tuning slide.


Theory doesn't always exist in the real world.

[saktoons]

I'm a 124 push 1 on my BBb (because 1's slide is right there where I can get to it). However, on my 20J, Eb sings out loud and clear (and relatively in tune) as an open false tone if I'm using my Megatone MP. (I know, the rules were no false tones and to have a 4th valve...)

[iiipopes]

Most guys have the #1 circuit cut @ 1/2 to 5/8 inch short so the 5th partials (midline D on a CC and 2nd space C on a BBb) can be shoved to play in tune. Then 2 is set just a hair out so 1+2 is not so sharp, then 3 is pulled so 2+3 is in tune, and 4 is set either in tune or slightly flat so 2+4 is easily lippable. That leaves one slide pull for the problem notes: #1,which on well-designed tubas is engineered to be the slide to "ride throttle" on.

I almost never pull for 12. I really actually can't remember the last time I did that on ANY tuba (though my unit's 187 seems to be a bit lower on Ab and G as compared to Eb and D; if I played it more I think I would just set it in place and get used to it). I also always tune 4 for 4 unless I am playing in B, E,... Which I never play that horn on anyways.
24 B natural will slot, but low E really needs the pull. I also usually don't have a 5th partial problem with most tubas, though on my King Eb I think I need to shorten the main tuning slide.

Theory doesn't always exist in the real world.

No, not always, but it does. Believe it or not, my 186 does not need the shove on 1, either, and neither does my Besson. But I've played many tubas that do, and my 186 has to have 1+2 on midline D as open is too flat to even lip, but 1+2 for that D is right on, not even a hair sharp as it can be on other instruments

Likewise, Each horn has its quirks. Some 6/4's, like Conn 2XJ's, need F fingered 1+3 instead of open. Alexander's are legendary for being all over the map.

The 38K need just a hair pull for 1+2, and with #3 set for 2+3 to be in tune, needs @ 1 to 1 1/4 inches for 1+3 to be in tune. 5th partials are fine, needing just a hair of lipping.

So you're right: theory does not always translate into practice, but knowing the theory and some general attributes to different styles of tubas will cut down on "get to know you" time as well.

[DavidK]

If the 1932 King BBb required any pulling in the low range that would be easy.

Martin Wilk installed an extra slide in the intertior loop of the existing 4th valve circuit. It sits behind the valves, like the 5th valve loop on many piston CC's (look at MW photos). It's a VERY slick feature to have. Easy to reach, if you actually needed to pull or push. And it allows easier draining of the 4th valve circuit and easier scrubbing at bath time for tubas!!

[iiipopes]

If the 1932 King BBb required any pulling in the low range that would be easy.

Martin Wilk installed an extra slide in the intertior loop of the existing 4th valve circuit. It sits behind the valves, like the 5th valve loop on many piston CC's (look at MW photos). It's a VERY slick feature to have. Easy to reach, if you actually needed to pull or push. And it allows easier draining of the 4th valve circuit and easier scrubbing at bath time for tubas!!

WHAT! How would we all get along without the traditional "King Spin"?!

Seriously, great mod for a great horn.

[j1007hc]

In High School I played on a Yamaha YBB 321 with four valves. These horns were piston action on top, so I couldn't adjust the slide even if i wanted to. I played 124 because it was less flat than the 14 was sharp. This was for the low Eb.

Now I play a front action piston CC, and use the 135 for low F.