It is time for an F tuba.

[CWessel188]

I'm a tuba performance major in college, and I have already started looking for a bass tuba. My primary horn [right now] is a Miraphone 188CC 5V (rotor) tuba, with a modified G&W Caber mouthpiece.

For my F, I want a tuba that will perform mainly as a solo horn, but have the oomph to play in orchestra when if I need it. These are obvious qualities in an F tuba I know.... My previous teacher had recommended that I get a gold brass horn, and I know I want more than 4 valves.

That's pretty much all I know for sure right now. thoughts?

[djwesp]

...teacher had recommended that I get a gold brass horn...

Did he/she happen to explain how they arrived at this conclusion?

[Bob Kolada]

I think the best use for a bass tuba for someone who plays contrabass primarily is in a brass quintet so you'll lessen the possibility of sounding like a "lead tuba" or something.

My 2 favorite F tubas also happen to be cheaper or common enough to possibly be cheaper- Cerveny 653 and Yamaha 621. I also like the 45SLP but I think those 2 are easier to play and will give a greater contrast to your 188. I also like the Yamaha 822 but they usually cost a bit more and are closer to your 188 than I personally would like. I would try to err on the smaller side, especially if you do not play euphonium or bass trombone (Bydlo...; Italian stuff which you probably wouldn't play on a bass trombone but whatever).

The Miraphone Eb's and the MW 2141 Eb are also really really good tubas. The Miraphone 181 and Firebird are also nice, but for some reason my play-badly-on-rotary-tubas syndrome shows up less on the 653 and the Star (I have not played the Star Light).

There are some really cool vintage horns out there as well, the best/most common of which are probably the little Bob Rusk York F tubas.


FWIW, I am also a performance major and I do almost all of my tuba playing on a small 3 valve King Eb (I also play bass trombone, am playing my school's 186 for one piece in brass choir, and play my reserve unit's 187 about half of the time there). This will change soon, but what I do end up with won't really be that different.

[tubashaman2]

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[CWessel188]

I'm unfamiliar with the Kodiak F tuba.

To answer the first question that was posed: I believe the gold brass was for a solid orchestral presence in the large ensemble....

I think I would be playing the horn mainly as a solo horn. I've ne'er had a problem playing my CC in brass quintet and small ensembles; my range is solid up to a middle C, but of course I can push higher. As for Orchestral works, I acknowledge that I'll very rarely be playing things like Bydlo that would require and F tuba. So I guess I'm flexible on that point.

In related news, I think the Barnes Tuba Concerto is better fitted to a CC tuba, because of the key it's written in and the low range of the piece. Is there anyone that thinks it'd be better played on an F?

[tubashaman2]

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[imperialbari]

If the for rental tubas are good, there will be a fight to buy them.

10 years ago I wanted a certain tuba model. The reference person to which the maker directed me warned me off that model. A very few, maybe only one, professional tubist used it in his orchestral work. His sample, and the one touring exhibitions and conferences, were good. The rest was less convincing, and one would never know the outcome of placing a firm order.

I can see how a maker may avoid selling a stellar demo sample, but I cannot see a retailer keeping a good for-rental-sample without loosing customers.

Klaus

[jonesbrass]

ya know...

For guys like this, it would be a really nice service if (maybe for $350/mo or $1,800 yr + shipping/insurance) some of the larger tuba places had F tubas for RENT.

This is a great idea. Its a shame to see young people spending booku bucks on a pro horn that they may discover they don't like after very long. Better to buy used and give yourself time to decide what you want. Then when you get to playtest, you know what's working for you and what's not.

[MartyNeilan]

Gold brass, silver, etc, really does not sound any different

I will agree that a silver plated tuba has little difference in sound from its counterpart, with the primary difference being cosmetic / finish care. Any minor difference in upper harmonics Schilke discovered are completely irrelevant in the tuba range

However, I will have to argue that an entire horn made of yellow brass vs. one of goldbrass/rosebrass/redbrass will have a difference in sound. There are some who claim to hear the difference with just the leadpipe or bell being made of a different material. When the the whole horn is a different metal, it really does have a different feel to it. A big difference? No, far from it. But still a difference nonetheless. My big goldbrass Miraphone F tuba was lacking some of the unwanted "edge" that most tall bell "stovepipe" Miraphones (not your 1291) have in the lower register when cranked. That rounder low end is a desirable attribute in an F tuba, and may be what his teacher was alluding to.
From Steve Ferguson's site, about a different Miraphone:

The 188 is also available in all gold brass, which gives an increased dynamic range, and a warmer, broader sound, with a minor decrease in projection and coarseness of attack.

My pure copper bell "tangerine" Reynolds bass bone has an extremely dark sound from MF and below, despite its relatively tight throat. But, unlike on tubas, once you cross a certain threshold on a red or orange trombone bell, look out!

Again, is there a big difference on tubas? No. But I do not believe we can state with authority that there is not difference at all when the entire instrument is made of a different metal. However, there are respected members of the tuba community who will argue otherwise.

Followup: No matter what kind of F tuba you pick, the musicians in your ensemble will probably notice a very minor difference. The audience will notice that you are playing a tuba.

[Rick Denney]

There is an underlying principle in Joe's suggestion that I'm sure he is hoping some of you young'uns will catch. I'll spell it out for you: Get something that just works, and is fairly cheap, and then learn how to play F tuba. After a year or two, you'll know what you want and need going forward. Sell that first instrument (and if you bought it used and took care of it, it will probably get what you paid for it), and put the proceeds towards what you want.

(Hint: this plan works for contrabass tubas, too.)

Example: My first F tuba was a used Musica with four valves. Actually, it was not a bad instrument, but the low register was typical for old rotary F's that don't have five or six valves. Despite being limited, it would serve the purpose of playing high solo literature for any college student, it seems to me. I paid a thousand bucks for it (it would be maybe twice that now). I played it for a year, and then bought a Yamaha 621. I then bundled the Musica with a Sanders Bb tuba and traded both to a student for a Miraphone 186 Bb. He used that Musica F tuba to learn to play F, too, and then used it as trade fodder for the instruments he really wanted. And so it goes. I hope it's still making those rounds.

Having played that Musica, I knew what I wanted in an F tuba (and what I didn't want). The proof of the concept is that the Yamaha I bought with that bit of experience informing the decision paid off--it's been my most commercially remunerative instrument and I still own it 19 years later.

I have owned several F tubas, and sold a couple. They have always sold for what I paid for them (at least). And I have owned instruments good enough for any pro, and never paid more than $4000 for one.

Back to the rental scheme. Let's say I rented that Musica. And let's say I put $1000 down as a security deposit, which I got back when my time with the instrument was up. Finally, let's say that my rent was...

...free.

Any light bulbs turning on? Turns out, the rental scheme Joe described (even if he didn't intend it this way) is already available. It might require a $3000 or $4000 "deposit", but that's a lot less than the $8000 or $9000 purchase that seems to cause such indecision and angst.

Rick "thinking that learning how to play an F tuba should not require making a life decision" Denney

[sloan]

ya know...

For guys like this, it would be a really nice service if (maybe for $350/mo or $1,800 yr + shipping/insurance) some of the larger tuba places had F tubas for RENT.

a) buy used
b) use some more
c) sell

better than renting.

[Ken Herrick]

Is it REALLY time for an F tuba?????

This has been an interesting string to read with some quite good advice and the ideas about "rentals" would be good to see developed. One must, unless they have plenty of bucks to spend, consider the pros and cons of getting finance for a new top line instrument vs a less expesive solution such as buying a lesser used instrument to "learn F tuba" on. The final decision is, of course, yours to make and the fact that you have asked for some advice is good.

Personally, and this is based on virtually no knowledge of you, your abilities, stage of development/schooling(other than being " a tuba performance major in college", and your past/present treachers, I wonder: IS IT TIME??? And no this is not meant as criticism but, rather, getting everything into perspective before you make that decision. In particular I started asking the IF when I read, "my range is solid up to a middle C, but of course I can push higher". That made me a bit suspicious that maybe you are not really ready to be too concerned about getting an F, let alone whether ot not it is gold brass.

A few years ago I was having a chat with one of my old mentors, Harvey Phillips, and he agreed that too many good young players were falling into the trap of having all the latest and greatest equipment in expectation that the equipment would fix their shortcomings as players. It might be wise to consider investing the money needed for a new instrument in being with the best teacher you can get, possibly even spending some time with a few different teachers and getting more "solutions" into you bag of tricks. I would even suggest that you aim for being able to spend a year or two just doing all the playing you can without the distraction of being in an academic setting to solidify your mastery of the instrument. Sort of like Harvey did - run away and join the circus and play, play, practice, practice, play some more and practice some more. The money you didn't spend on the shiny new horn could go a long way toward "financing" that period.

The "F" should not be a "FIX", merely an option. When you can competently perform say, RVW including the top Ab in the 1st movt cadenza on your CC you might like to try an F and see which best lets you make the musical expression you want. Often players get an F thinking it will give them a top end they don't have on their CC or BBb only to find that by the time they have developed it they have lost their low to mid range which is where 90% or more of the money making notes you will ever likely play reside.

Just another consideration.