Amazing! Restored Swedish F-Tuba

[petter@brasseriet.no]

My latest project is restoring an old Swedish built F-Tuba. The instrument is unmarked, but similar to other tubas from the
Ahlberg & Ohlsson workshop in Stockholm. The tuba is almost for sure made by this company. The year of manufacture is ca. 1890.
These tubas have a quite different design than other european instruments of the same age. It will be exciting to restore this fine tuba. I will up-date this post as the process develops.

All the best

Petter

[oedipoes]

That is indeed a very remarkable piston-valve setup.

How do valves 4 and 5 work ergonomically?

How does it sound?

[petter@brasseriet.no]

When it comes to the play of this instrument, I have not yet tested it. I bought it from a tuba-player that has used it in a traditional Swedish brass sextet. The brass sextet was/is a well known format in Sweden, and many old and nice sounding arrangements
are still played. On the you tube video you can see and hear an identical tuba!

You can watch an example here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B2uZa7jzEI" target="_blank" target="_blank

[Wyvern]

I rather like the sound of that sextet and music played. Although so small-belled, that F tuba has a good sound. Interesting valve trombones too.

[imperialbari]

Knäckbasun = knick trombone

[Rick Denney]

It looks remarkably like the original Wieprecht basstuba made by Moritz, from the 1830's, with three Berlinerpumpen for the right hand and two for the left hand. The use of both hands was expected in those days, from using the ophicleide, the serpent, the Russian Bassoon, or any of the woodwind instruments.

I seem to recall Klaus commenting that instruments of this design were used until quite recently in Denmark, and possibly in Scandinavia at large.

Please keep us posted.

Rick "wondering how the dimensions of this one compare to a Moritz instrument" Denney

[imperialbari]

There may some period groups in Sweden like the one on the video. We have a re-enactment band using the books from a long gone regimental band, but when I have seen them they used mostly modern instruments. And in one matter they are really off: they use horns, where the original military alto instrument here was a valve trombone in Eb.

The military band associated with the castle in Stockholm is a mounted band of drafted players but for a core of 6 (or maybe 8 ) professionals on longer contracts. For court parties these 6 professionals form a period sextet like the one on the video: 3 flugelhorns (high and low Eb, Bb), 2 valve trombones, and a bass tuba. The Swedes have a period repertory for that formation, which we don’t. Ours is for high Eb flugelhorn, 2 cornets, trumpet, 4 valve trombones (1 Eb, 3 Bb), and bass tuba. I have not seen evidence of post-WWI instruments with Berliner Pumpen been made in Denmark, whereas rotary F tubas with the same valve layout were used in military bands.

My own Schmidt of Copenhagen F with 2+3 Berliner Pumpen was made around 1906. Sadly the bottom bow is so corroded that a restoration hardly will make sense.

Klaus

[Art Hovey]

How are the valves tuned on these instruments?
I have been told that Swedish tubas often have a "long" third valve tubing, tuned to a major third (two whole steps) instead of the minor third that is more common today.

[imperialbari]

How are the valves tuned on these instruments?
I have been told that Swedish tubas often have a "long" third valve tubing, tuned to a major third (two whole steps) instead of the minor third that is more common today.

This goes for 3 valve instruments with the formal purpose of being able to play low Eb on Bb instruments and Ab on Eb instruments. I don’t remember seeing F instruments with a two-whole-steps extension.

The 2+3P F tuba had the leadpipe entering the left-hand cluster first. The layout of tubelengths was a bit similar to the Vienna 3+3 tubas insofar that the 1st and 2nd valves of the “F-side”are for the left hand.

L1: whole step
L2: semitone

R1: long whole step
R2: long semitone
R3: fourth (5 semitones)

Basically a double F&C tuba with each side having 2 valves and the R3 acting as the shift valve.

Klaus

[tuba-tobias]

This is a 4-valve Ahlberg & Ohlsson F-tuba belonging to the Norwegian Museum of Defence Forces.
I remember it played surpricingly well, in many ways better than the Melton F I owned at the time, the "problem" C played with no problems.
This one had a major third third valve.
The player in the picture is a former colleague of mine, Per Frydenland.

[petter@brasseriet.no]

One thing leads to another...
The work on my swedish F-Tuba is going on. In the meantime I have bought another swedish F-Tuba. Quite the same construction, but with the company name Ahlberg & Ohlsson Stockholm stamped on it. The instrument is not that old as the unmarked.
Reports on sound and tune will follow.

[petter@brasseriet.no]

Now we have started working on the tuba. Some new parts must be made, but I can use most of the original ones.
I visited Markneukirchen this summer and tested the tuba prior to disassemble. I think it will be great!

[imperialbari]

Danish, and very likely also Swedish, makers may have made their valve blocks themselves at some point of time prior to 1900. However it appears like they eventually took the easier road of buying their so called machines from Markneukirchen. The I. K. Gottfried giving name to the current Danish brass and woodwind shop in Copenhagen was an Austrian walking through Europe on his feet to stop and exercise his brass making skills where possible. He may have settled in Copenhagen due to marriage and taking over an older Danish company later on.

Aside from lurs IKG stopped making brass instruments in 1943, maybe 1944. They still could have brass sheets from a Danish supplier. they still had the equipment to bend tuba bottom bows. But they couldn’t get their valve blocks from Markneukirchen any more. Early on during WWII Germany thought the war would be brief, so the brass instruments’ makers continued making instruments. I have seen a fine Knopf horn made in 1941. But then the rest is history.

The Swedish maker Sandner & Leistner in Kristianstad also proves German influx. Both names are names of German trades. Sandner is somebody working with sand likely in a foundry context. Leistner makes detailed woodwork like in windows. Gottfried is a bit different: Peace with God or God’s peace.

Klaus

[petter@brasseriet.no]

Yes folks,
the ugly duckling has now turned into a swan.
I just came home to Norway from Markneukirchen, Germany. I visited my friend, the instrument maker.
On his work bench, for this occasion draped in bed linen, the beauty was sleeping. I could not believe
what I was looking at. The pictures tell everything, I am speechless.
On the top; I tested the tuba with my PT-65 mouthpiece - above all my expectations.
I have to work on the pitch, but the sound was amazing!

[Pozzie]

WOW

[oedipoes]

WONDERFUL !

(I need to get my kaiser restored like that too, once !!)

Wim

[tubaerik]

Thats some really impressive work. It looks awesome.

I recently joined one of these Swedish sextets ("brunnssextet") here in Gothenburg. Everyone but me plays on old Swedish instruments. We've got a Eb cornet, Bb cornet, Eb valve trombone and two Bb valve trombones. I play on my Rudy F. Hopefully I will get the opportunity to try an old Swedish F tuba some day.

[J.c. Sherman]

That is wonderful work!

J.c.S.

[petter@brasseriet.no]

It looks remarkably like the original Wieprecht basstuba made by Moritz, from the 1830's, with three Berlinerpumpen for the right hand and two for the left hand. The use of both hands was expected in those days, from using the ophicleide, the serpent, the Russian Bassoon, or any of the woodwind instruments.

I seem to recall Klaus commenting that instruments of this design were used until quite recently in Denmark, and possibly in Scandinavia at large.

Please keep us posted.

Rick "wondering how the dimensions of this one compare to a Moritz instrument" Denney

Hi Rick and you other tuba players!
The dimensions on my lovely tuba is:
Height: 98 cm
Bell dia: 25,5 cm
width on body between valve sets: 28 cm

[Wyvern]

Petter, Out of interest, how would you say it plays against your small Melton 14 F?