"Turkey Day" rant

[MartyNeilan]

I hope the BBS members outside of the US and Canada will forgive me while I rant (one handed).

When I was young, the holiday was called "Thanksgiving." I will skip the history lesson, but the origins of the holiday in both the US and (on a separate day) Canada revolve around GIVING THANKS. It was a holiday celebrated by most religions, and the non-religous alike, when we could reflect on all we have to be grateful for. Once in a while, some wisecracking TV reporter would call it "Turkey Day" and everyone would chuckle.
Fast forward a couple of decades.
EVERYWHERE it is called turkey day. People no longer wish you a Happy Thanksgiving, but a happy turkey day instead. Newspapers, TV, even retail advertisements now refer to it almost exclusively as turkey day. Is it because people can't spell THANKSGIVING anymore? (They can't spell congratulations or graduation anymore, so that is a possibility.) Or is it just that our Western culture in general has become so self-absorbed and so patently ungrateful for all we have?
Perhaps the next person who wishes a TNFJ member a happy "turkey day" should get bopped over the head with a sock full of Blokepieces®?

[Dylan King]

Psalm 10:4
The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God;
God is in none of his thoughts.

Hosea 7:10
And the pride of Israel (Modern day USA, UK, Israel, and Western Europe) testifies to his face, But they do not return to the LORD their God, Nor seek Him for all this.

Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.

[bort]

Huh? I've only every heard it called Turkey Day tongue-in-cheek. It's always been Thanksgiving out here. And of course, the good ol' Macy's Turkey Day Parade...?

Is this a regional thing??

[Dylan King]

In this case, I believe God's Word speaks for itself.

Curious. Why does the term "Xmas" annoy you? Personally I find the term "Christmas" far more offensive, in leu of the First, Second and Third Commandments.

[The Big Ben]

In this case, I believe God's Word speaks for itself.

Curious. Why does the term "Xmas" annoy you? Personally I find the term "Christmas" far more offensive, in leu of the First, Second and Third Commandments.

Not sure about the term "Christmas" but "Xmas" should really be "Crusifix-mas" because that is what the X really should be.

[kegmcnabb]

Marty,

I think the biggest reason is marketing. An image of a turkey is very usable for advertising and decoration and is a light-hearted image suitable for selling things. Much better than images of dour puritans. Possibly a comment on the "commercialization" of our holidays, but probably not so much a comment on anything else. IMHO

That said, while "Turkey Day" is commonly used, I don't think it is really replacing "Thanksgiving", at least around here. I think (or at least hope) that most folks take the time to reflect on what they should be thankful for.

Dylan,

You may think scripture speaks for itself, but I am a (reasonably) intelligent guy and I have no idea of the point you are trying to make about Thanksgiving. Including your thoughts would help.

[windshieldbug]

Because some use it to remove Christ out of the holiday.

The origin of the figure is the opposite, if I'm not mistaken.

Abbreviations used as Christian symbols have a long history in the church. The letters of the word "Christ" in Greek, the language in which the New Testament was written, or various titles for Jesus early became symbols of Christ and Christianity. For example, the first two letters of the word Christ (cristoV, or as it would be written in older manuscripts, CRISTOS) are the Greek letters chi (c or C) and rho (r or R). These letters were used in the early church to create the chi-rho monogram (see Chrismons), a symbol that by the fourth century became part of the official battle standard of the emperor Constantine.

Another example is the symbol of the fish, one of the earliest symbols of Christians that has been found scratched on the walls of the catacombs of Rome. It likely originated from using the first letter of several titles of Jesus (Jesus Christ Son of God Savior). When combined these initial letters together spelled the Greek word for fish (icquV, ichthus).

The exact origin of the single letter X for Christ cannot be pinpointed with certainty. Some claim that it began in the first century AD along with the other symbols, but evidence is lacking. Others think that it came into widespread use by the thirteenth century along with many other abbreviations and symbols for Christianity and various Christian ideas that were popular in the Middle Ages. However, again, the evidence is sparse.

[Dylan King]

Is it because people can't spell THANKSGIVING anymore? (They can't spell congratulations or graduation anymore, so that is a possibility.) Or is it just that our Western culture in general has become so self-absorbed and so patently ungrateful for all we have?

The scripture I quoted was answering the above questions. The attitudes in our nation have turned away from God, as has been prophesied for thousands of years. Ungrateful is right.

[Brucom]

Sean:

Along with Politics, I think we should also ban Sex and Religion.

thanks, Bruce

[MartyNeilan]

Sean:

Along with Politics, I think we should also ban Sex and Religion.

thanks, Bruce

Here on TubeNet or in general?

I went to lengths in my original rant to keep religion out of it, as I see Thanksgiving as both a religious AND secular holiday.
Sex was banned from my household long ago.

[WVUtubaman12]

Sean:

Along with Politics, I think we should also ban Sex and Religion.

thanks, Bruce

I find it interesting that this post probably wouldn't have been made if it was a Muslim voicing issues over how people react to or treat those celebrating Ramadan, or a Jewish person posting about how they felt Hanukkah was almost as commercialized as Christmas (I don't believe that it is, but you get the point). When did we as a society become selectively tolerant?

[Dylan King]

Sean:

Along with Politics, I think we should also ban Sex and Religion.

thanks, Bruce

Do you mean that we should ban ALL religion, or just those that you or a tubenet moderator doesn't approve of?

By banning religion, if done right, there wouldn't be ANY posts regarding Tuba Christmas or Chanukah. Nobody could chime-in about their church gigs, Christmas gigs, Easter gigs, Bar Mitzvah gigs, etc. It would be like banning anyone with a spiritual perspective from telling their side of the story, however different it may be from others.

Some people on this forum see atheism as a religion, and believe that the theory of evolution is not backed by factual evidence. Should we also ban talk about science that may have a spiritual argument against it?

When a beloved colleague dies, would it be wrong to announce a funeral taking place in a specific church? What about someone posting that a deceased loved one is in heaven? The Bible actually says that nobody is in heaven but God and His Son (John 3:13), but should we ban those who believe otherwise from sharing something that gives them peace?

What about all of the "sacred" music we play as musicians? Should we ban ever talking about playing sacred music and its meaning? Brass instruments have an incredible history, and much of that history can be found in the Bible, not to mention that som much of our literature comes from religious inspiration.

There are certain types of censorship that are needed in a forum like this, as there are things posted that offend from time to time that need to be removed. I have had posts removed or have removed them voluntarily in the past after hearing of an offence or a misunderstanding that I was unable to clarify. But a general statement like “ban religion”, seems ridiculous to me. Religion is built in to the character of many good people on this board, and telling us that we cannot express that part of our character would be a big mistake.

[tubatom91]

This thread just reminded me that I might be performing a Wedding Ceremony the day of our Tuba Christmas.

[windshieldbug]

One positive thing, thanks or not, is that Thanksgiving dinner calls together members of the modern extended family, whose lives have often scattered far afield.

One can either focus of the inevitable tensions, or on the unity which has survived in a very incohesive society.

[Donn]

I don't get it - I've heard the term `Turkey Day', but would hardly say it's common usage. I would have guessed that, if someone had a beef with contemporary celebration of this holiday, it would be exactly that an ostensibly religious holiday (Christmas) has been creeping up on it. Thanksgiving is a secular holiday, essentially the same harvest festival people celebrate in temperate regions anywhere.

As for the value of religious debate in a tuba bulletin board ... that's the sort of thing that has lots to offer for people who like to argue, but it's hard to see how even they really get much out of it. If we want to get into divisive topics, let's do raw brass vs. lacquer or something.

[bort]

Wow...I had no idea that Thanksgiving had ANY religious meaning.

[The Big Ben]

One positive thing, thanks or not, is that Thanksgiving dinner calls together members of the modern extended family, whose lives have often scattered far afield.

It's my understanding that both Thanksgiving and Christmas were adapted from pagan traditions predating the rise of Christianity.

"Thanksgiving" is an old fashion Harvest Festival for thanking the Powers That Be for a bountiful harvest. I'm not familiar enough with the pagan roots of Christmas to explain it.

Hanukkah is, comparatively, a minor Jewish holiday. Yom Kippur, which was celebrated last month is the 'big' one in the Hebrew community. I think Hanukkah is included with Christmas to appear to be more inclusive.

Ramadan was last month, too....

All seem to be reasons for friends and family to get together, on "Turkey Day" or not...

[Dylan King]

Christmas and Easter are not found in the Bible. The King James Version translates Passover one time in the New Testament (Acts 12:4) as "Easter", which was an attempt by the writers to incorporate the pagan holiday into true Christianity. Modern versions like the NIV and NKJV translate it correctly.

It's interesting to note that there is no mention of Chanukah in the Old Testament, but it is mentioned in the New Testament.

John 10:22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch.

The early Christians, including Christ and the Apostles, observed the weekly (Saturday) Sabbath, Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread, The Feast of Pentecost (Firstfruits), The Feast of Trumpets, The Day of Atonement (A commanded fast day for Christians and Jews), The Feast of Tabernacles, and The Last Great Day.

[Mark]

Along with Politics, I think we should also ban Sex and Religion.

Are there people having sex on TubeNet?

[Donn]

Are there people having sex on TubeNet?

You may thank your moderators for removing that before you had to see it.