What do you use a mute in the most?

Bob Kolada · Post by **Bob Kolada** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:31 pm

I now own both a large tuba and a small tuba, and while I would like to buy a mute I probably don't want 2 mutes.

What do you use a mute in the most- a tuba with a small bell or a large one?

FWIW, my 2 tubas have a 20" and 15" bell.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:16 pm

Big tuba.

The most commonly played excerpt that requires a mute is in Pictures at an Exhibition, with Carmina Burana (I think I remember that it has a muted note) not far behind. Most orchestra dudes would use their big tubas for those works.

Rick "who has only been required to use a mute once in nearly 40 years, and that was for a big tuba" Denney

Ken Herrick · Post by **Ken Herrick** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:55 pm

Bartock Concerto for Orchestra is another commonly played part. First time I did it I didn't have and could not buy or borrow a mute. Cut a disk from 2" styrofoam with outriggers so it just sat over the bell with a bit of clear space around the edge. Did the job nicely, didn't give the resistance normal mutes do and only cost me about $2.

A few years ago I went to a national brass band comp. All the A grade bands had mutes for everybody as they were required in the test piece.

I reckon that "those who beat their sordinos into plow shares ain't gonna grow much corn."

Tubadork · Post by **Tubadork** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:12 pm

Bartok

Ken Herrick · Post by **Ken Herrick** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:44 pm

Tubadork wrote:Bartok

OK - pardon me for intruding on your existence

Tubadork · Post by **Tubadork** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:49 pm

Really? What part of corrected spelling made you think that my existence was intruded upon? I was just trying to help, this is a public forum and you seem to have a certain degree of ingenuity and knowledge and I just wanted to help you with the spelling of a composer.
Good luck,
Bill

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:24 pm

I use a mute mostly in my music room. It rarely goes in the horn.

I used an often-mentioned-on-this-forum mute in Ives' Variations on America this year and the conductor (a former Met principal trombone) said, "I prefer that part muted." Finally! a mute that doesn't sound like a mute.

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:27 pm

The bell diameter isn’t necessarily the most significant parameter. The throat diameter and the profile of the stack also are important.

I only have first hand knowledge with the Ion Balu mutes, but other makers also make their mutes flexible by means of cork blocks of various sizes, which are mounted by means of velcro and hence are exchangeable.

Currently I correspond with a maker of modular dual purpose mutes. When my sample arrives, I will tell about it.

Already now my point is, that with careful shopping, you may cover all your needs for straight muting with only one mute.

Klaus

Chadtuba · Post by **Chadtuba** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:36 pm

As I only have the one tuba I had to vote for the small bell

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:38 pm

the elephant wrote:For quintet my homemade one works very well and I will not seek another.

That's not by any chance the posterboard contraption I made, is it?

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:51 pm

the elephant wrote:Both. Sorry, Bob. I need and use mutes on both horns every year. I have three now but am still looking for a LOUD, buzzy, metallic-sounding one like the trumpets use. I have yet to find a tuba mute that has that exact quality, even those made by the makers of excellent trumpet mutes. I need LOUD and SIZZLING for our large hall or it gets lost. For quintet my homemade one works very well and I will not seek another.

What about soldering a thin metal plate on top of your metal mute to form a closed pocket. Put iron nails under that plate before finishing the soldering.

Klaus

tuba-tobias · Post by **tuba-tobias** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:42 am

The ensembles I have been using mute the most is in contemporary music originally written for wind ensemble. Therefore - the big one.

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:34 am

the elephant wrote:
imperialbari wrote:
the elephant wrote:Both. Sorry, Bob. I need and use mutes on both horns every year. I have three now but am still looking for a LOUD, buzzy, metallic-sounding one like the trumpets use. I have yet to find a tuba mute that has that exact quality, even those made by the makers of excellent trumpet mutes. I need LOUD and SIZZLING for our large hall or it gets lost. For quintet my homemade one works very well and I will not seek another.
What about soldering a thin metal plate on top of your metal mute to form a closed pocket. Put iron nails under that plate before finishing the soldering.

Klaus
Buzzy like a good trumpet mute, not like hot oil in a frying pan!

I understand that. Basically I referred to a special mute owned by a Danish jazz trombonist. It basically was the result of an attempt to save a mute after it had been damaged in transport.

As for the sizzle of some trumpet mutes, it likely comes from a combination of high air compression and a small area of vibrating metal. The compression could be achieved by means of shallow corks. Compression certainly is a factor. 25 years ago I was quite hooked on Miles Davis’ version of Time After Time, especially the sound of his wah-wah with the stem taken out. I couldn’t even come close to that sound on my trombones until I almost blocked the hole in the mute with one of my left hand fingers. That was not comfortable for playing, so I found a bulky piece of rubber pencil eraser to sit in the hole. Possibly blocking 90% of the aperture. That gave a sizzle on top of the muffling.

But there is another aspect. In open playing the defining formants of the trombone are an octave lower than those of the trumpet. I cannot tell the relationship between trumpet and (contrabass-) tuba, as the types of sound are different, but the formants hardly are less than 2 octaves apart. Even if you could get your straight mute sizzling two octaves below the trumpet, it would not have the same piercing effect. Aside from the tuba mute being very much bulkier than the trumpet mute, the material also is thicker to ensure structural stability. The trick for getting the high frequency sizzle would be to isolate a smaller area of thin metal and incorporate it in the mute without damping it. I have ideas, but they potentially could ruin the mute.

Klaus

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:20 am

Looking at usage in the last year I no doubt use mute in my Neptune more than smaller tubas - from memory:-

Neptune (BAT) Mute
Stravinsky Petrushka
Stravinsky Firebird
Mahler 1
Strauss Heldenleben
Ellerby Paris Sketches (concert band)

Standard mute
Bartok Concerto (played on Eb)

However, if I could only have one mute, I would have standard one for smaller tubas. After all it is always possible to take the smaller tuba with mute for the specific passage (I did that before I had BAT mute). You are not looking for a big fat tone when muted.

BTW I find that my standard mute fits/fitted Besson EEb 981, M-W 2040/5 Eb, B&S PT-20 CC and B&S PT-15 F. The larger BAT mute just fits/fitted Neptune and Cerveny Kaiser 701.

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:12 pm

the elephant wrote:Klaus, I have often thought about buying a used H&B Symphonic aluminum mute (the large one) for a 4/4 tuba, removing the corks and re-corking it like a practice mute, then cutting out about half of the cap and replacing it with very thin metal (like .5mm aluminum). Think this would work?

The air has to escape somewhere, and if it is around the thin inserted sheet metal, there may arise a harmonica effect. I rather would keep the corks, but shave them as much as possible without letting the mute touch the inside of the stack. Maybe a few thin corks should be added further up to stabilize the seating of the mute. The corks should not be shaved so much that the mute goes stuffy.

Mutes have their complex shape for a purpose: structural integrity. Cutting a hole might ruin that stability. If the said mute has an indentation on the top plane, then I would cut it into 6, 8, or more sections, radial pizza-style. Then the triangles may be doubled back on the inside without touching the mute inside. The edges of the octagon (or whatever) then may be compressed by means of pliers. That will give you a stable area to rivet the thin metal to the mute. Maybe hammered brass or copper may give the most alive sound.

This outline of course will need to be adapted to real life.

Klaus

Eric B · Post by **Eric B** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:30 pm

Rick Denney wrote:Rick "who has only been required to use a mute once in nearly 40 years, and that was for a big tuba" Denney

University of Michigan director (Wagner, I think) directed the 1989 Oklahoma All-State Band. He chewed the tuba section out because not one of the 6 of us came with a tuba mute. I think they found one at the near by University of Oklahoma. They gave it to the 1st chair player and the other 5 laid out in that section. I don't recall the piece, although I'll never forget that director.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:26 pm

My television

awaters · Post by **awaters** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:10 pm

i use a denis wick mute for big horn it sizzles and is in tune. played firebird on willson F last season with a trumcor"deluxe straight mute" plays in tune has unique internal "slide" for tuning.
wish i had a big wooden mute

Steve Marcus · Post by **Steve Marcus** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:59 pm

A fair amount of Morton Gould's music contains some muted tuba passages.

You better not show up to brass band rehearsal without a mute, particularly if you're rehearsing one of numerous Test Pieces that call for it.

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:12 pm

If bands want muted tubas, shouldn’t they provide them ready to use in the bandroom? Transporting a tuba is already a pest in its own right.

Klaus

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