New Kanstul tubas?

[Bob Kolada]

Every now and then I hear or read about new Kanstul tubas, including a re-worked small 5 valve C and an Eb? Anyone got any new info (or pictures!) about those?

[TUBAD83]

I would be also interested in opinions on their BBb horns...looking to possibly purchase one early next year.

[tbn.al]

Stofer is your man for Kanstuls.

[Chriss2760]

Nice BBb Kanstul horn here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT" target="_blank" target="_blank

Sounds like they might be willing to entertain offers.

[Tubadork]

http://kanstul.net/detail.php?pass_sear ... nd%20Brass" target="_blank
no Eb listed on their page,
Bill

[Bob Kolada]

Blahhh.... I thought this one was supposed to have a more comfortable valve set than the 621-ish angle of the previous ones......

[David Richoux]

Nice BBb Kanstul horn here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Sounds like they might be willing to entertain offers.

I love that "TO BIG B. 1 SMALL B" trying to express BBb without having a clue (or maybe knowing how to turn the caps lock key off?)

[Chriss2760]

Thanks for the translation. I wondered what that was all about.

[imperialbari]

Another presentation of the same tuba:

http://picclick.com/Musical-Instruments ... 96051.html

Is a price of US$5500.00 realistic?

Klaus

[Lee Stofer]

The tuba for sale on the Bay is Kanstul's current 5/4 BBb, a modern tuba that is based on the tapers of the legendary Martin Mammoth BBb. Like the traditional Besson Sovereign or Yamaha YBB-321 tubas, this instrument is comfortable-enough if you are 6 ft. tall or taller, or if you use a stand. The playing qualities are like the old Martin, with the benefit of really nice, tight pistons and some ingenious fine-tuning options. I have spent probably over 40 hours in performance on one of these, and it is a really solid, satisfying instrument to play. You can blend and balance with the best of ensembles, but cut through when the need arises, too.

Kanstul is working towards developing a new line of tubas, based on Grand Rapids York tubas. As I understand it, the first model will be patterned after the York model 33 4-piston BBb. Plans include there also being a CC and Eb versions of this instrument, which is the same size as the Getzen CB-50/G-50. These instruments will most likely be available with either four top- or four front pistons, and with a 5th rotor if requested.

A number of manufacturers have attempted, with varying degrees of success, to copy the old York tubas, but one item that has always been missed is the bell. I have learned enough to have a basic idea of what made the Yorks play as they do, but Mr. Kanstul has succeeded in building a bell that sounds like a York. Several bells have been made, and have been fitted to York, Holton and Boehm & Meinl tubas. In each case, the result is an instrument that plays and sounds like a York.

The idea is to eventually offer new Kanstul tubas of the Grand Rapids variety, so that you can actually buy what for all practical purposes is a brand-new Grand Rapids York tuba, and I'll also be able to offer Kanstul bells that will transform your York copy tuba into what you had hoped it would be. I'll say this much - a Kanstul-made 6/4 Grand Rapids bell has been fitted to a Holton 6/4 original CC, and I'm told the results are magic. One of the colleagues in this project recorded another colleague playing the refitted Holton CC in an orchestral setting this week, and told me that the sound was so stunning and Chicago-esque when the tuba first played, that he captured himself exclaiming , "OH MY!" on the recording.

I'll have the opportunity to see and play Kanstul's work within the next 10 days, and will report my findings.

[imperialbari]

Lee, please give a few hints about the bell parameters giving the York sound.

Klaus

[Bob Kolada]

Kanstul is working towards developing a new line of tubas, based on Grand Rapids York tubas. As I understand it, the first model will be patterned after the York model 33 4-piston BBb. Plans include there also being a CC and Eb versions of this instrument, which is the same size as the Getzen CB-50/G-50. These instruments will most likely be available with either four top- or four front pistons, and with a 5th rotor if requested.

Definitely cool (especially a new great playing front valve "Monster-style" Eb!)!

[Lee Stofer]

Klaus,
OK, I'll say this much. I had always thought that softer metal and the absence of tension in an instrument was good. I now know that the absence of tension in the assembly of the body of an instrument is essential to free vibration. However, a soft bell, although it can play very softly and provide a warm sound in a chamber setting, does not project well, having little carrying power. I once annealed a 24" Conn 25J bell to a very soft state, and found I had basically created a 6/4 tuba that was best suited to brass quintet. I had to work and reintroduce some hardness into the bell for it to play acceptably well throughout the dynamic range and have good projection.

Early instrument makers experimented with bell materials and hardness, and although metallurgy was not as exact a science as it is today, York and others hit upon certain parameters that worked really well. There is an old Conn BBb helicon here that has a bell with a different color to it as compared to the rest of the instrument. The sound of this instrument is captivating to me, and it is quite easy-to-play.

The metal and exact process is a secret and will remain so. I am not privy to the details, and really don't want to be. I do know that test bells have been fitted to instruments that had a Grand Rapids design heritage. For instance, a Grand Rapids York 4/4 BBb and a Boehm & Meinl York Master 4/4 BBb, both with detachable upright bells, have had new detachable bells made. With the Grand Rapids York, there was virtually no difference in sound between the original configuration and with the new bell. The colleague who owns these horns said that when the Boehm & Meinl was fitted with the new bell, all of a sudden it sounds and plays like a Grand Rapids York. A 6/4 Holton CC with intonation and pitch issues was fitted with a new 6/4 bell, and the report from a colleague is that it sounds and plays like a York 6/4, with pitch and response lining up now. York 6/4 CC #3, anyone?!

My expectation is that eventually it will be possible to re-fit York Master tubas, Getzen G-50/CB50's, PT-606's, Meinl-Weston 2145's, King 2341's, and the host of 6/4 York wanna-be tubas with a Kanstul bell that makes them play very much like the original item. And, very fine, complete new tubas will also be available. Now that is a change I can hope for!

[imperialbari]

Thanks for the information! I will have to do some thinking before I might reply.

Only this right now: Would Kanstul make a detachable upright bell for my rather large 4/4 York Master BBb, which has conical collars?

Klaus

[TubaRay]

Now that is a change I can hope for!

I notice that you have used the words "hope" and "change" in a sentence. Have you received your Nobel Peace Prize, yet?

[TUBAD83]

Now that is a change I can hope for!

I notice that you have used the words "hope" and "change" in a sentence. Have you received your Nobel Peace Prize, yet?

Wow...

just wow...

If that wasnt political I dont know what is...

Don't pay that any attention hobson--some people just can't let go and move on.

JJ

[hubert]

Hello Lee,
Any news/further inforrmation in the mean time?
Thanks.
Hubert

[kegmcnabb]

Visiting Lee's shop a couple of weeks ago I was fortunate enough to toot a little on one of his Kanstul/York 33 prototypes. Now mind you, I am a hack player ( ) and only played a little but I really LOVED the way this horn felt and its sound. I think that Kanstul and Lee really have a winner on their hands here. I should also mention what a gracious host Lee is when you visit his shop. We had a great conversation and he took the time to show me this cool horn as well as his notes and drawings for the same.

Oh yeah, AND I came away with a new (for me) King 2341.

[Lee Stofer]

Hello All,
I decided to take a break from work for a few minutes!

Yesterday, I finished my tweaks on the Kanstul Grand Rapids model 33 BBb, and reluctantly let it go, shipping it to a couple of engineers for more testing. After this, it will go back to California, to be polished and bright silver plated.

Kanstul is apparently fired-up about this project, and if all goes well, I will be able to introduce this 4-top-piston BBb, a 4-front-piston version, and hopefully a monster Eb version as well at the Capitol Tuba Conference at Fort Myer, Virginia (Washington, DC) in January, 2010.

Having been a person who has played most of his career on large tubas, I really didn't think that I could be happy with a compact tuba with a mid' .600's bore, but as the Kanstul folks have reminded me, there is more to airflow characteristics than just bore size. This tuba plays as open as many larger tubas. There is a darkness and richness to the tone that is somewhat difficult to describe. There are just enough of certain upper frequencies present in the sound to give a 'bite', or edge when desired, but for the most part a really dark sound that I would describe as sweet, dark chocolate, as compared to a milk chocolate sound from most other good tubas. I encountered no intonation difficulties, a real rarity for a prototype.

The new model 33 is really compact, but is heavier than I expected, about 28 lbs or so. It has a 20" bell diameter. The players that have tried it so far have liked the piston placement, some expressing surprise at the comfort of the top-piston configuration. The instrument now has 6 water keys, as I really don't like to have to monkey-around with an instrument for water removal. These tubas are good-enough, that I'm now convinced that I'll buy one for my own use in 2010, even if I have to sell my Grand Rapids York to do so. I've had the opportunity to play a number of York tubas in the past few months, and Kanstul's newest offerings definitely play like a York.

To answer Klaus' question, Kanstul reproduction bells are a reality, available right now. I just sent in another order to Kanstul yesterday for a reproduction upright bell for a York Master BBb tuba, made with Grand Rapids-type metal, with the proper conical bell tenon. Mr. Kanstul has made copies of both the York Master tenon and the Grand Rapids York tenon, so he can supply a bell for the range of Grand Rapids and York Master instruments, either for detachable-bell, or one-piece-bell instruments.

Please forgive me for not having photos of these on the website yet - I've just had too much repair work to manage to do that, too. I hope to post some soon. If someone out there that is a more computer tech-savvy than I would like to post some York reproduction photos on this forum, just e-mail me and I'll send you jpegs.

[Timswisstuba]

Any idea of the price range of a Kanstul /York bell?