Amazing BB piston tuba

[bisontuba]

HI-
A while back, Dick Barth of Gemstone brought a W. Nirschl lacquered BBb 4 piston horn-machinery from Walter Nirschl, made in Brazil-to Don Harry at the Music Hall here in Buffalo. The horn was superb. A 4/4 or 5/4 horn. 19" bell, .750 bore.
Today, I just finished listening to and playing a silver version-4 piston BBb W. Nirschl- that Don Harry acquired from Gemstone and that he is using in this week's Buffalo Philharmonic Symphonic concert--WOW--an amazing instrument! Don sounded amazing on it--as he always does.
Best BBb tuba I have ever played--including some well known 'Dragon' type instruments...
Very open, well centered, excellent assembly, impeccable intonation--incredible. Watch for this production horn soon--it will be at an equally amazing price (cheap) too! Can't wait for the CC version to be ready! Bravo Gemstone and W. Nirschl!
My 2 cents (0.03 Brazilian reals) worth...
Regards-
mark
jonestuba@juno.com" target="_blank

[UTSAtuba]

Any news, at all, about the CC version? I've seen that blog, but nothing new. Thanks!

[imperialbari]

Price level in the US?

Can this model be bought through Nirschl in Germany?

Klaus

[Art Hovey]

Matt Walters had a silver Nirschl BBb on display last month at the HH Tuba Day on Long Island. I liked it, although the finger button positions were not right for me.
I was impressed by how little it weighs, for a large BBb tuba.

[bisontuba]

HI-
I 'believe' Gemstone/W. Nirschl will be at MidWest this month AND the Army Tuba Conference next month with the BBb horns--AND MAYBE have the Gemstone/W. Nirschl 'prototype' piston CC there too!!!!!!
Don will be at Midwest playing with New Sousa Band and have his 'raincatcher' Robb Stewart made CC tuba AND I think(?) also playing his BBb silver Gemstone/W. Nirschl with Keith and the band.
BTW, I think the nickel-silver 'shortage' on the lacquer horn is a factor to keep the price down--similar to the S-186 horns vrs. a normal 186.
Of course, on the silver plated horns, it's a bit hard to notice.
But who cares if nickel silver or no nickel silver 'trim'--they play great-period.
mark

[MartyNeilan]

One will notice from the picture that (just like most all other Weril-made instruments) there is very little nickel-silver.

Apparently, copper can be found in South America, but not very much nickel.

FWIW, I had a Bohm and Meinl tuba a number of years ago that had virtually no nickel-silver on it at all. This was not a student model, but a large piston CC tuba, model 5520.
Maybe they are just copying what was built in Geretsreid.

[bisontuba]

Hi-
From their website--stainless steel pistons

J-700LQ
Model J-700LQ 4/4 BBb Tuba
Bass
Four front action stainless steel pistons
.748" bore
19" bell
Genuine RGB Helleberg mouthpiece.
Available in satin silver, silver plate or durable lacquer
Durable plastic case with wheels [MJ Note:--the cases will be MTS cases]

Regards-
mark
jonestuba@juno.com" target="_blank

[Rick Denney]

FWIW, I had a Bohm and Meinl tuba a number of years ago that had virtually no nickel-silver on it at all. This was not a student model, but a large piston CC tuba, model 5520.
Maybe they are just copying what was built in Geretsreid.

My York Master, made by B&M, has quite a bit of nickel-silver, including all the outer slide tubing.



The B&M Symphonic 5500, which is different in many ways than my York Master, still used that diagonal valve arrangement. Nirschl went to the vertical arrangement when he started making Yorkophones, I suspect, and I'm sure uses the same valve body on all his instruments. A section mate has a 5500 that is much, much newer than my YM, and it is indeed all brass. This seems to me a cost measure, and perhaps more of an imitation of American tubas (my Holton has no nickel-silver components, except the valve plating).

Did I understand correctly that this one has Nirschl (read: Geretsried-made) valves and Weril outer branches?

Rick "thinking that between this development and the Kanstul Grand Rapids development, the big-but-not-BAT Bb market just got more interesting" Denney

[bisontuba]

HI-
All of the W. Nirschl tubas--all parts --are made from the machinery of Walter Nirschl that he sent down to Brazil and they are made in Brazil--Walter has been there teaching/supervising the builders--and Walter seems to have succeeded in his teaching/supervision. German technology at the Brazil price--hence a superior inexpensive instrument.
mark

[imperialbari]

Living far from where things really happen, tubawise, I have to ask about that back-mounted resonator box:

Does it come with this tuba?

Or is it a Don Harry special?

Klaus

[Alex C]

The BBb Nirschl Gemstone is importing is quite similar to the CC tuba made by Nirschl. I would call is a cousin of the old B&M tubas, it's not any closer than than. In particular, the larger bows' taper is obviously more like the Nirschl than the B&M.

The tooling is all Nirschl, or overseen by Nirschl. I have been told that the instruments are being made in Brazil and would also assume that Weril is making them.

The CC is supposed to be in the US by summer but I would guess that it's going to be a while before it's commercially available. The BBb's are just now coming in.

These are among the best BBb's I've played.

[stardude82]

So, the W. Nirschl tubas are made in Brazil and the Euphs are made in India.... Anyway, looks like they are out for Jupiter's lunch.

Any word on what the 3/4 plays like or is it identical to the Weril YBB-621 clone sans a valve? From what I can tell there isn't much of a price difference.

[T. J. Ricer]

The whole W. Nirschl line has moved to Brazil, so the euphs are no longer from India.

-T. J.

[bisontuba]

HI-
The W. Nirschl is no 3/4 tuba--VERY different than the Weril little tuba--it IS a Nirschl 4/4 or 5/4 tuba--Walter's machinery for these 4/4 5/4 BB's and CC's are now located in Brazil.
mark

[stardude82]

What about the one on Brasswind?
http://www.wwbw.com/W--Nirschl-J-500LQ- ... 43401.wwbw

I understand it is a different horn from the 4/4, but what is its relation to the Weril line if any? It is a dead ringer for the now discontinued YBB-103. Did Walter happen to buy out Yamaha's tooling for that horn? It has the larger bore.

[imperialbari]

The RGB Helleberg mouthpiece following the small BBb doesn”t ring any bells with me. What does RGB refer to? Hardly any computerrelated colour matters.

Klaus

[bisontuba]

HI-
RGB--Richard "Dick G. Barth--I have played it and it is excellent.
mark

[pigman]

I returned home from my one day run to the Midwest show. I made a point of trying the nirschal horn. I'm a pretty fussy guy . and I have to give the horn 2 thumbs up. The horn I payed was awesome . very well built Big fat non German sound. Its my pick among current BBb s. Great job Walter!!
I played plenty of other horns at the show, thousands more... Keep em

[Frank Ortega]

I just noticed on the Gronitz website that they have a 6/4 BBb piston valve tuba listed as KaiserBasse.
Has anyone tried this horn? Looks awesome. Perhaps it's more in tune than the CC version?

Frank Ortega

[Steve Marcus]

Dick Barth was at the Gemstone booth at Midwest with the new Brazilian-built Nirschl 4/4 BBb (some say that it could be considered a 5/4, but it's marketed as a 4/4).

At any price, this is an excellent tuba. The tone was warm and even throughout the range, intonation without fault, VERY easy slotting, etc.

Price level in the US?

Dick said that this horn will retail in the U.S. for $4000. I just shook my head in near-disbelief. A few years ago, Custom Music was selling new German-built Nirschl 4/4 CC tubas in the $10,000 price range. I bought my own 4/4 German-built Nirschl CC used for significantly more money than the price of the new Brazilian versions.

Now, of course, I couldn't do a detailed, lengthy A-B comparison of the playing characteristcs and structural stability of the new Brazilian Nirschl vs. my own German-built horn.

If they're solidly built so that they hold up over the long haul as well as my Nirschl tuba has, one can only take a deep breath and shake one's head again.

I can only imagine--what if they could build a 6/4 Nirschl CC as good as the ones that now sell for around $17,000 and price it proportionately (well under $10,000)? Suddenly, a high quality new 6/4 horn would be very tempting...