Massive education cutback solutions?

[BVD Press]

Dear All,

Many districts around the country are facing massive educational cutbacks. In my little town of 15,000 we lost $2 million in funds over the last month or so which will equal massive cutbacks, layoffs, etc. which will in turn change the level of education that is currently offered.

I was curious if anyone out there had some creative ways to cutback on school spending? What has your district done to keep the educational offering at the same level while also cutting back?

Personally I think lots of little cuts will add up to big cuts, but the district appears to be more interested in large cuts...Some small cuts I came up with:

1. A contracts should be reviewed. The ones that come to mind are:

a. photo copiers
b. electric
c. gas or oil
d. internet
e. teachers
f. administrators
g. bus
h. plowing (this might be the town, but it possible it is contracted out)
i. any services that are farmed out to maintain the school. if these can be done in house, it would save money as long as the district received the same quality
j. recycling
k. insurance

2. All test results should handed out at school rather than mailed.

3. Cut out all mailing via the Post Office: forms, letters, information, etc. should be emailed or sent home with students. This might even help students have a bit more responsibility?

4. Do you know if each school purchases supply from their own budget? Or is this done district wide? If the whole district, the district would get a much better rate from whatever supplier they choose.

5. In addition to seeking concessions from the teachers, all hourly employees should be asked to take 1 extra week unpaid off per year. Not all at once, but throughout the year so services are not disturbed. CA is using a furlough for all people who are employed by the state.

6. Cut all non-essential/nice to have personal...

7. If not done already, heat should set on in three levels: school hours, 4-8PM, overnight

Thanks for any more suggestions!

Take care,

[Tubaryan12]

Here's something curious:

Play around with this little web-gadget (below) and type in "90%" under each race. You'll see that there are OODLES of public schools that are over 90% black but NO public schools that are over 90% white. Apparently, it is now quite ILLEGAL for public schools to be nearly all white, but it is obviously NOT illegal for public schools to be nearly all black.

Not curious at all. Here's why:

Student demographics – 86 percent African-American, 8 percent white and 6 percent other races/nationalities.

Not much you can do with numbers like that.

How that came to be is another discussion. I don't believe it used to be that way.

[Tubaryan12]

Not curious at all. Here's why:

Student demographics – 86 percent African-American, 8 percent white and 6 percent other races/nationalities.

Not much you can do with numbers like that.

How that came to be is another discussion. I don't believe it used to be that way.

...but you see, PRIOR to that judge's stroke of the pen, it WAS legal to have BOTH schools that are over 90% black AND to have schools that are over 90% white. Now (apparently), only 90% black schools are legal. If there are not enough white students in the system to prevent schools from being 90% black, those schools should be abolished - in order to avoid "racism".

nice try, but busing to ensure racial diversity is frowned upon these days. You can always write your senator and voice your outrage at this situation.

Then again, I'm sure if the minorities in these communities saw any advantage to being placed in the schools with the +90% demographic, the lawsuits would have been filed by now.

[Tubaryan12]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui6-Wc0P ... re=related"

As a black man, I will stand up and tell you this routine is so true. I love this routine and Chris Rock! Tired, tired, tired, tired, tired.

[lgb&dtuba]

Around here they've started using "economic diversity" as a busing excuse.

[BVD Press]

bloke "who believes that people only really value those things (including education) that they pay for out of their own pockets"

Kind of interesting because I have suggested to the "powers that be" that they bill every tax payer for $133.00 which would solve our budget shortfall. I don't think they would have the guts to do it and would rather cut 20 teaching jobs...Cutting is easy, but actually finding money and then solving the issues for the future is hard. Most will choose the easy way.

[Tubaryan12]

...and I'm particularly not interested in buying their services for those who are not interested in receiving those services.

Now I can get back on topic.

I have a sure fire way to raise test scores and cut costs all at the same time. All you need to do is this: Promise every citizen 13 years of free primary education, K-12....but the catch is that if you don't behave in school, you are expelled for a year and you will have to make up that year later. I'm not talking about your average kid that messes up every now and then. I'm talking about the hard core troublemakers that make a teacher's job hell. That way, schools won't have to spend nearly as much money on security or teachers tasked with working with, and counselling those that don't want to behave. Class sizes can increase, because time and effort won't be wasted with dicipline. Less teachers and fewer school buildings will be needed, saving districts millions of dollars per year.

Once expelled, the parent will always have the option of paying out of their own pocket for the private school of their choice. Moving will not be an option. This plan will be tracked nationally, so no changing districts to get back into school. No tax cut or voucher will be offered because your kid isn't going to the public school. If you can't get little Johny to behave, then it's going to cost you.

Lotteries and other revenue streams of this sort would have a chance to work....if lawmakers wouldn't use that stream as an excuse to cut education funding with the hope that the lottery will "take care of it". These types of streams should only be used as suppliments to funding....just like a candy sale.

[king2ba]

...and I'm particularly not interested in buying their services for those who are not interested in receiving those services.

I have a sure fire way to raise test scores and cut costs all at the same time. All you need to do is this: Promise every citizen 13 years of free primary education, K-12....but the catch is that if you don't behave in school, you are expelled for a year and you will have to make up that year later. I'm not talking about your average kid that messes up every now and then. I'm talking about the hard core troublemakers that make a teacher's job hell.

Haven't worked in a school, have you?

I teach at a private school. My kids are amazing. The best of the best. I still have kids that are MAJOR behavioral problems. BUT, major problems at my school, would be normal at another, or very minor at a third. What you are also not considering is that MAJOR problems happen very rarely. It's the kid that needs CONSTANT redirection and attention for very minor things that takes up so much time. I have kids that never say a word in class, they are model students, but it's the kid that is constantly talking to his buddy that slows class down. The talking isn't disruptive...they can be very quiet...it's the not paying attention that is the issue. I'll have to start pieces two or three times to get everyone paying attention and playing on the first note.

Then comes the question of what is your definition of hard core troublemaker vs. a kid that messes up every now and then?

[Tubaryan12]

Haven't worked in a school, have you?

I don't have to. My kids went to public school. Their stories, and my time visiting the school, volunteering, and checking out how things are going is enough to let me know that it's a far cry different from when I went to school.

I teach at a private school.

That's part of my point. Parents have skin in the game (their tuition). They pay for it and I'm sure your parents are a far cry different from public school parents. When you are scratching that check for tuition, most folks have a completely different attitude about what goes on there. I'm sure your kids are amazing.....but a lot of that credit goes to the parents that make sure they show up ready and prepared to learn.

There are other places in this world where parents would do anything to get their kids into school.....and kids would do anything to go. Both groups in this country have started to take education for granted, and the results are easy to see.

The type of kids I'm talking about (the hard core) generally don't get to that stage until middle and high school. The weapons, drugs, and violence we see today from school aged kids is not getting better. The class clown may slow down the educational process a bit, but that's about it. Now, If that same guy is constantly disruptive no matter how many notes home, extended days, parent teacher conferences, etc., then maybe a year off will get the point across to both student and parent.

[BVD Press]

Hey BVD,

Does your town/state have an "education lottery" at the beer marts? These lotteries cure ALL of our societal ills!

No beer marts or education lottery, but two casinos which also cure all social ills:)

[king2ba]

Haven't worked in a school, have you?

I don't have to. My kids went to public school. Their stories, and my time visiting the school, volunteering, and checking out how things are going is enough to let me know that it's a far cry different from when I went to school.

Again, you haven't worked in a school. Until you are the person that has to actually discipline a child, or worse yet, try to explain to a parent that their little angel is actually a little sh*t, you'll never understand.

My point is only that it is impossible to make a broad statement about what is actually bad behavior. At my school, we expel kids every year. Many times, the offenses would be considered very minor at a public school. Our standards are higher.

Many times, the behavior that you might be considering to be hard core bad is ignored or even supported by parents. Until someone can make a system that punishes adults for being bad parents, nothing in the schools will change.

I do agree with Joe, though. Paying for education is great so long as you are paying for your own child, but even then the system isn't perfect.

[king2ba]

Now we are way of topic. What is being talked about just won't happen. Period. To go back to BVD's original question, there is no good way to balance budgets. Anything that is cut will piss someone off. It's all about fairness. The biggest thing we can teach kids is that life isn't fair. If something is worth having, it's worth working for.

We have a situation down here that is a perfect example of the problems with school funding. The public schools cancelled our All-County Bands due to lack of funds. My private school would have picked up the bill and allowed the event to still go on with very few modifications. The public school music teachers said 'no' because they want the school board to fund what they think is important. The public school music teachers continue to make the argument that sports programs aren't being cut, so arts programs shouldn't be cut either. Life is full of double standards....we need to get used to it and teach kids that there are ways to work around stupidity. Instead, people down here gave up and lost a great program for the kids.

If schools really want to control spending, then they need to let people that know what they are doing buy products. I've worked at a few music stores. I've watched school after school over pay for items due to stupid BID pricing practices. Hire good people and give them the power to do a good job. People that are meant to be teachers aren't in it for the money...having the ability to do a great job is what it's all about.

[Tubaryan12]

Haven't worked in a school, have you?

I don't have to. My kids went to public school. Their stories, and my time visiting the school, volunteering, and checking out how things are going is enough to let me know that it's a far cry different from when I went to school.

Again, you haven't worked in a school. Until you are the person that has to actually discipline a child, or worse yet, try to explain to a parent that their little angel is actually a little sh*t, you'll never understand.

My point is only that it is impossible to make a broad statement about what is actually bad behavior. At my school, we expel kids every year. Many times, the offenses would be considered very minor at a public school. Our standards are higher.

Many times, the behavior that you might be considering to be hard core bad is ignored or even supported by parents. Until someone can make a system that punishes adults for being bad parents, nothing in the schools will change.

I do agree with Joe, though. Paying for education is great so long as you are paying for your own child, but even then the system isn't perfect.

I'm just not being clear. I want the standard to be higher. It should be. Believe me, I have or would have no problem telling a parent that their kid is a pain. No problem what so ever. In fact, every year, when school started, I would go up to the teacher that had my daughter and explain to them that my own daughter was a pain. I would tell them she is the type that will push you, and if you don't get her in line quickly, she will keep pushing until you crack. The teachers that would heed my warning had no problem with her. Those that did not.....let's just say they had a rougher time of it than if they had gotten me involved earlier. I know every kid is different. I also know that schools let kids get away with a lot more than they used to....and in plain English, "it ain't right". I don't blame teachers. I've been telling anyone that would listen that LJV's explaination is dead on. I've been saying it for years. Very few will listen.

[lgb&dtuba]

Politicians control the public school systems.

A politician's main concern is getting re-elected.

Politicians will always pander to money and where the most votes are, whichever will get them re-elected.

Big money interests aren't interested in school school boards except to the extent that they can influence the award of new construction contracts.

Ticking off enough parents will lose the election.

Not enough parents really care what goes on in the schools as long as they don't have to deal with their own spawn and never outgrew their own anti-teacher immaturities.

So we should be surprised at the state of the public system?

[MartyNeilan]

but the catch is that if you don't behave in school, you are expelled for a year and you will have to make up that year later. I'm not talking about your average kid that messes up every now and then. I'm talking about the hard core troublemakers that make a teacher's job hell. That way, schools won't have to spend nearly as much money on security or teachers tasked with working with, and counseling those that don't want to behave. Class sizes can increase, because time and effort won't be wasted with discipline. Less teachers and fewer school buildings will be needed, saving districts millions of dollars per year.

Once expelled, the parent will always have the option of paying out of their own pocket for the private school of their choice. Moving will not be an option. This plan will be tracked nationally, so no changing districts to get back into school. No tax cut or voucher will be offered because your kid isn't going to the public school. If you can't get little Johny to behave, then it's going to cost you.

You would be surprised how strict schools have already gotten, at all ages. That is not necessarily the answer.
Case in point: I pulled a lot of (admittedly small and largely harmless, but still annoying) garbage when I was in school. Got in-school suspension once or twice in Junior High, detention a few times in High School.
My oldest son, who has only done a fraction of what I did, has been in far more trouble already than I ever was and he is only in fourth grade. He was suspended last year for pushing someone in line (no one ever got pushed in an elementary school line? I remember getting kicked in the stomach in my day while waiting in line.) Yesterday, I had to pick him up early from the asst. principal's office. He was bored in math class (recurring theme - that teacher does not teach) and, with vacation coming up, starting babbling "blah blah blah" in class. Asst. principal told me if it happens again, he will be suspended. For saying "blah blah blah." They probably think they are doing the right thing, too. More discipline, for discipline's sake, is NOT the answer. And yes, he has been punished at home in varying degrees for his offenses at school. Unfortunately, in this day and age, I can't even describe some of the punishments without a hyper-liberal threatening to take him away and jail his parents. Suffice it to say that no TV / no video games is the lowest level punishment, not the highest as in some households.

(thread not directed directly toward Ryan.)

[Tubaryan12]

Unfortunately, in this day and age, I can't even describe some of the punishments without a hyper-liberal threatening to take him away and jail his parents. Suffice it to say that no TV / no video games is the lowest level punishment, not the highest as in some households.

(thread not directed directly toward Ryan.)

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Let's just say I had a run in with the Cuyahoga County child services folks where in the end, I basically told the case worker and the supervisor "you can't tell me how to discipline my children...you don't cut me a check each month". After the 6 weeks of monitoring, where the caseworker basically watched tv with my wife each afternoon that she had to be there (they were classmates in school, btw), my household was given a clean bill of heath and business continued as usual. The caseworker realized after visiting my kids without me in the room once that this was a waste of time, but her hands were tied. Rules are rules....

Getting schools (or anything else, for that matter) back under control....be it discipline or spending, will be messy and loads of mistakes, over reactions, and other bad outcomes will occur. Doing nothing and going with the status quo will, without question, make matters worse.

[Tubaryan12]

In my opinion, the biggest problem with state run university systems is simply duplication of services.

[Tubaryan12]

You need at least 1 per state, otherwise there would be no good football rivalries.

Besides, just cutting the number in half would take care of making them competitive.

[rocksanddirt]

In my opinion, the biggest problem with state run university systems is simply duplication of services.

yes...I would cut the system back to (perhaps...??) one public university for every 10 - 15 million citizens (fewer than one per state)...and make it very competitive indeed to be admitted to one of them.

that's kind of a tough call. Here in CA we have 11 University of California Campus's (two are esentially only grad schools, so maybe not relevent to the question), and about 25 California State Univerisity Campus's. Each group is geared to a different student and faculty demographic. Right now about 1/2 the combined total of campuses have student bodies above 20,000, not including grad students. Are some of those people in the wrong place and costing everyone time and $? undoubtedly, but it's not usually the ones who would get shut out of a system that replaced these 35-ish campuses with 4 (one for every about 10M population), it's the ones who would probably still get in based on family resources and high school grades, but who would be better off with three years in the army first.

[rocksanddirt]

'snip'

Isn't California hopelessly bankrupt?

What if a million or so of those dawdle-dee-ers were making stuff...stuff that we're currently buying from China?

That's due to bad tax policy/law from the late 70's, and bad sentencing laws for criminals (possession is treated the same regardless of the 'potency' of the drug (sorta), so lots of folks in for 10 years on possession of an oz of weed)....so we collect no local revenue to pay for schools, so the state has to pay for them from the state income tax (which then has to be higher to also pay for the stuff it should be paying for).

The states budget goes four-ish ways....
Health and Human Services 32%
Corrections and Rehabilitation 12%
K-12 Education 37%
Higher Education 12%

The remaining 7% goes for the entire court system (it's a state agency, not county by county), all transportation related, all business regulation and support, consumer affairs, environmental protection, parks, resource management (lots of both logging and mining still), worker safety and training, and a pitance give back to the counties for the property tax that they steal.

The income for all this comes about 80-85% directly from individuals (personal income tax, property tax, sales tax), and about 8% from corporate taxes (the rest i cant' figure out from the crazy table I saw).

Surprizingly it's take 30 years for the bad decisions of Prop 13 to bankrupt the state.

Those dwadlers are mostly growing food for the rest of the country to eat. about $31 Billion worth in 2004 (first stat I came across). A surprizing number of crops are not grown economically elsewhere....

Ranks first in production of almonds (100% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of avocados (96% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of broccoli (92% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of celery (93% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of dairy products (20% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of grapes (91% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of lemons (89% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of lettuce (71% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of onions (31% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of peaches (54% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of pistachio nuts (100% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of plums (97% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of strawberries (83% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of tomatoes (53% of U.S. production).
Ranks first in production of walnuts (100% of U.S. production).
(data liberated from http://stuffaboutstates.com/california/agriculture.htm" target="_blank)

I'm not surprized that avocados and brocoli are up there....but Almonds? 100%? what do you people do for farms in the rest of the country? is all corn?