Stowasser cimbasso

[Bob Kolada]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Vintage-Cimbas ... 4a9cf85b21

Would I be correct if I assumed this was one of the smaller, bass trombone bore size horns?


Here's a Stowasser Bb.
http://home.att.net/~bobbeecher/trombone/trombone.html

[Bob Kolada]

A reply to my question said it has a 8 7/8" bell and a .555 bore. Never mind!
Between my tiny King Eb and my big bass trombone with a "too-big" mouthpiece I'm probably covered anyways...

[Dan Schultz]

The open bugle on said instrument is certainly MUCH longer that the normal 9 feet for a trombone. Actually, it looks even longer than the prescribed 12 feet to be the same open bugle as an F tuba. I'm voting for cimbasso.

[Bob Kolada]

Going off the picture and the measurements provided by the seller, I vote for F bass valve trombone.

-Too small of a bore to be a modern cimbasso.
-Valves, not slide so it is not a contrabass trombone.
-Even if it did have a slide instead of valves, if it were the same size it would be an F bass slide trombone (though most had bigger bells).

I can't see it being an Eb and it is too short to be a contrabass.

[Donn]

The open bugle on said instrument is certainly MUCH longer that the normal 9 feet for a trombone. Actually, it looks even longer than the prescribed 12 feet to be the same open bugle as an F tuba. I'm voting for cimbasso.

I make it 12 feet, if that. Note that the bell is only 8 7/8 inches, which could throw your perspective off. But this isn't an `I don't know anything about musical instruments but I'll try to answer your questions as best I can' seller, there seems to be some knowledge and more importantly the connections to get something checked out; accordingly it has been checked out and the supposedly well known brass players said "F". So I think you could take that for granted. And there's a "Plays great" 7 day return policy.

I'm not crazy about clockspring valves, but these look like a lot better quality than mine. Looking at the closeup, last image, it looks like there's an adjustable knob on each valve stem, for what purpose I'm not sure? and is the scalloped rim of the spring housing just decorative, or is that also an adjustment feature?

[Timswisstuba]

Call it what you want, the fact is that it's a really small bore. (14 mm / @0.550
inch )

That bore size is about the same as a modern tenor trombone. I have about 4 of these in various keys and the bore size is exactly the same for the Bb "tenor" valve trombone and the F "bass/contrabass". The only difference is the longer tubes.

LJV is just trying to warn fellow tuba players that they shouldn't pay $2,000 and expect to get a world class sound on it. If I were to show up to a gig with that instrument, I would not be asked back.

However, these are fun to play because you can experiment with other bell sections . I hooked a 4 valve section into the bell section of a contrabass trombone and came out with a 6 valve contrabass trombone in E natural. It was fun to play for about 20 minutes, after that it was put back on the shelf.

xsmall bass bone 6 valves.jpg

[Timswisstuba]

This cimbasso that was made for me in Italy has a 17.5 mm /0.695 bore and sounds like a cimbasso.

Merry Christmas

[Timswisstuba]

Greek Temple.jpg

The situation we have here can be easily described with this picture.

Are the pillars round or square ? If you can only see either round or square, you are not looking hard enough.

The pillars look round if you are looking from above and square if you are looking from below.

The correct answer about what we call this instrument all depends upon your point of view. In Europe this is called a bass trombone, (round pillars) if you look at the length it would be classified as a contrabass, (square pillars) if you look at only the bore size, I would call it a tenor. (no pillars) What we call it does not change what it is.

Bloke comes the closest by calling it a "thing", so I think we should just call it “a 4 valve F – Thing”

Seeing the other’s point of view is more valuable than anything else. If you can only see it one way, you're not looking hard enough.

[Donn]

As I stated previously I think anyone expecting this instrumment to sound like a modern contrabass trombone or cimbasso will be disappointed.

The seller states that it is pitched in F in the same octave as an F tuba, therefore it is not a bass trombone in Bb or G. It seems trombones pitched in this range are commonly refered to as contrabass trombones.

So, could we say that regardless of what the common nomenclature might be, since this thing will not serve as a contrabass trombone, it isn't one?

[Eflatdoubler]

The contrabass trombone has existed since at least the 17th century. Praetorius refers to it as the "Octav-Posaun".
A contrabass trombone would be 18 feet in length via the usage of double valves or a double slide. (HERBERT)

Horns in F usually have a "D" trigger and a "C" trigger, with both of them being used producing a B flat.

There is a great resource on the trombone entitled "The Trombone" by Trevor Herbert as a part of the Yale Musical Instrument Series.

While bell sizes can sometimes aid in classifying an instrument, I would be cautious.

Modern classifications and those given to the instrument when the music was first written are entirely different. By all accounts, the modern .547 bore trombone with an 8 1/2" bell would be considered more of a bass trombone at the turn of the 20th century.

Even 100 years ago, a .525 bore instrument with an 8" bell was more standard for tenor trombonists in an orchestra.

This can certainly serve as a contrabass trombone, just not for everyone.
A Yugo car might not be big enough for everyone (especially you tuba players who have the misfortune of having to cart such large instruments ) but it is still indeed a car and can be classified as one.